What are your thoughts on giving away culls

[ineke]

As I get a bit further into the hobby I am starting to cull much more than I did. If for instance I cull my Rilis so that when someone sees them they may not know they are from Rilis because their markings aren't so good should these be offered to beginners? I know that they have good genes but not good enough now for my breeding program but is offering these type of shrimp to the community OK? We are striving for good markings and types so is giving away not so good shrimp OK. I would probably offer them with a couple of nice males surplus to my requirements or is it better to just keep them in my pool and leave them be. It's something I have been thinking about for a while and wonder what is best? I have the room to keep them so space isn't an issue and I know when I started out I would have been happy to get anything but now realise it's better to start with better stock. Any thoughts? I know there have been threads on what do you do with culls but this is more specific -if it's not good enough for me is it good enough to give away?

[KillieOrCory]

If you considered the mistakes people make at the start of their journey, I think giving away or even selling culls is perfectly fine. Think back how many people mentioned in the past how they have lost their RCS or CRS or even Tibees due to an issue here and there.

We learn from our mistakes; at least I hope we do. I think I am a very good fish keeper with over 25 years of experience. Which means 1000's of fish that I have kept died due to various reasons, but also my fish have bred 10's of thousands of offspring. I have literally seen most if not all the fish diseases out there, and can now cure the fish no problems or know when it is more humane to euthanase the fish not to cause more suffering. I have become a better fish keeper by keeping them and observing.

People are going to make mistakes (not on purpose), so it is always better to not to loose their hard earned money at the same time.

Also if you think about it a good percentage of the people are going to loose interest in shrimp keeping in a few years (I know its hard to believe!) so in the long run it is perfectly OK for people to have what someone might consider culls.

If you consider how many generations are possible in a 12 month period, even culls with good genes have potential to breed great shrimp. The challenge to breed great shrimp is a much better motivator than simply purchasing great shrimp in my opinion.

Our selection methods are super subjective anyway, for example just because someone somewhere decided the SSS pattern is more valuable than A pattern I do not need to follow that idea like sheep. I personally like the A patterns as much as SSS. People need to decide what they like and not force themselves to conform to the 'popular' belief system that SSS is better. People who keep shrimp, fish, plants whatever that loose interest in a few years do so (in my opinion) because they weren't keeping the ones they like anyway, they were conditioned to like a certain type/variety by the general community, whether it is based on patterns or potential dollar value.

Culls are fine, really.

[K9932]

I just received my pack of culls today and to be quite honest, at my level of shrimp keeping these seem like quality to me.

As only a beginner in this hobby my level of standards is someone elses culls lol.

I am always excited to receive culls as I know they do come from quality stock. And they're always good to get you started :)

[lizhe1985]

From a beginners view... I would be really happy to buy/be given culls as at early stage there are still trail and errors happening. Even I have kept discus and other fish for a number of years, but shrimps are different..

[Garnelchen]

I think it's fine too!

You must remember it is not everybodys intension to selectively breed shrimp.

Some people (myself included) just enjoy keeping shrimp, learning about their behaviour and biologie. Of course this also includes breeding them and of course I rather have pretty shrimp but "pretty" does not necessarily mean higher quality.

But it's a journey and starting off with culls is a good start.

So yes! Spread the shrimpies!

[jayc]

I'd happy take some of your culls off your hands Ineke.

You know they will got to a good home, and be taken care by someone who is capable :positive:

The principal of giving away culls is certainly ok, in my view.

I might get lucky and breed them up a few grades. It'll certainly take longer with lower grade specimens, but not impossible. Culls suit people that don't have any stock yet and want to start. Adding culls to your existing stock will set back the breeding program, so that's not ideal.

What is not ok is ... if someone sold on their low grade culls for more money than it's worth.

Sell them for a reasonable profit by all means, but never pass it off as something that is more than what it's worth.

If you sold a quality specimen, than a reasonable profit is to be expected. If you sold a specimen that would have been thrown out (to the pond) otherwise, then $3-$4 each is fair, at least to cover costs and admin.

[ineke]

Thanks for your replies just confirms what I thought. I don't have any culls large enough to give away just yet but it won't be long- I have to wait until they colour up a bit more and so you can actually see them properly. Out of each batch of Rilis I will probably only keep half a dozen or so but these are Red Rili with Blue genes that I bought from Dean so the genes are excellent it's just you can't keep everything you breed or you NEED MORE TANKS.

When I have some I will definitely put them up for grabs but just wait a few weeks before you pm me as they won't be ready.

[Wraithie]

As said by most everyone, culls are a great way for newer keepers to get into the game without worrying as much about making a mistake.

For myself i cant justify buying the more expensive shrimp until im confidant that i can keep and breed what i have, culls provide a bit of a stepping stone to allow us into the more specialty varieties.

Providing that sellers arent passing culls off as something that they are not, if buyers are informed, its their choice :)

[ineke]

I'm also talking about real culls not slightly off colour like BB has. But I'm glad others feel the same that they are good for beginners to start with and because the genes are good they are likely to throw some nice Rilis anyway. I will be doing the same with my Chocolates in a couple of months too.

[BlueBolts]

Great thread ineke.

IMHO......

Culls due to deformity/defects, definitely a NO-NO, as the person receiving them may not be aware of the issues, etc...and may introduce these deformities unknowingly into their stock, population...etc

Culls in general (Lack of colour/intensity, patterns etc... , from a selective breeding program is fine......all hobbyist have to start from somewhere, and obtaining these culls cheaply or FREE, is a great way to spread the addiction of our hobby.

More often than not, new hobbyist will take the natural progression to selectively breed their favourite shrimps, thus the cycle of our hobby growth is continually reignited...

One of the most critical part of the equation is a forum like SKF, where information is truly shared, and the hobby is continually informed, so that the masses are there to ensure the quality of our shrimps continually improve, with selectively breeding programs etc..... thus the "culls" are kept at a beginner's level or in community tanks etc....

Over the past 12 months, our hobby has taken a HUGE turn for the better, where there's numerous selective breeding programs. Quality shrimps are appearing via these programs, and the quality of our hobby has never been better !

[Squiggle]

Definitely agree with everyone, culls are a great way to start & as mentioned, one persons culls are another's beauties. As long as you're not ripping anyone off saying they are high quality then I don't see any problem. :victorious:

[mr_c265]

Culls due to deformity/defects' date=' definitely a NO-NO, as the person receiving them may not be aware of the issues, etc...and may introduce these deformities unknowingly into their stock, population...etc

Culls in general (Lack of colour/intensity, patterns etc... , from a selective breeding program is fine......all hobbyist have to start from somewhere, and obtaining these culls cheaply or FREE, is a great way to spread the addiction of our hobby.

(skip a bit)

Over the past 12 months, our hobby has taken a HUGE turn for the better, where there's numerous selective breeding programs. Quality shrimps are appearing via these programs, and the quality of our hobby has never been better !

[/quote']

I have to agree with that 100%. Defects should be removed before they can breed, in my opinion the parents should be treated with caution too. Balloon Molly's are an example of a defect that makes me want to cough my guts out.

But, colour/finnage etc those sort of culls, they should definitely be distributed where possible, it's a great way to allow someone to invest themselves in the hobby and an excellent foot in the door.

It's hard to fork out $40 for 2 shrimp when you've never kept them before.

Plus, a lot of the line breeding of colour traits occurs due to an expression that others would call a cull.

There's some pretty cool shrimp around at the moment, some of the Red Line's that are up and running are stunning! Great to see that theres that sort of quality around.