TDS

[darktim]

So today my tds meter arrived and i tested my tank water and tap

My Tank was at 246

whilst my tap was at 100

i was wondering what cause tds to rise so much?

my tank before was at 300 went over to a mates place to test it. and i managed to bring it down using ro water and tap water combination

What TDS should i be aiming for with cherry shrimp? i know what i currently have is probably to high so ill be trying to bring it down

[BlueBolts]

Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) can be salts, mineral, metals etc.... Usually an indication of purity of water. Rocks, plant fert's etc... Can raise your TDS, so depends on your tank setup, efts you may use etc.. Cherries are not too sensitive to TDS, so the TDS you've got now is fine.....I found the healthiest and biggest cherry in my outdoor pond, which I use to dump excess plants. Tested the TDS, and it was like 600+....

[darktim]

Whats interesting is that in my tank i have plants but i dont use plant ferts, some have been dying off so i guess i could be removing them but the only thing i would be adding to my tank is prime when i condition my water, i do on the other hand have a small stone so i might try removing that incase its being seeping minerals into the water, its the size of a 20cent coin so i didnt think about it,

can shrimp waste also increase the tds?

[BlueBolts]

Yes, shrimp waste can affect TDS.

[hoang1912]

I lose ~10 shrimps and 1 pregnent in the last 3 days :(. I dont mnow about tds untill asked my friend. He told it might be high TDS. Did all the test and no thing wrong untill check TDS. My tds when I checked is ~500 which is too high for CRS isnt it? When I take em out, they have a thick shell.......

[Squiggle]

Yeah 500 is way too high, you want to get it down to about <150ppm, although other members have had success with slightly higher level :encouragement:

[Dead Can Dance]

Got my TDS today!

Not sure where it's from (to work out EC) but one tank is 146, the other is 250.

To raise and lower your TDS, do you add less or more minerals to your RO water ?

For example, add X amount... test TDS, if low, add a bit more ?

[BlueBolts]

RO/DI theoritically has (should have) a TDS of ZERO....minerals increase TDS.

[Dead Can Dance]

If I poured a small glassful of RO water, that I added some minerals to, read 38 with my TDS pen.

Pick a path; should I:

A: Shake the water container and retest or is it accurate even if the water has been sitting still for a day ?

B: Add more minerals until I get what I'm after ?

For CRS, the perfect tds is ? :)

[torface]

You can retest but I would have thought that if the minerals are dissolved it's not going to change by much.

Have you seen this thread? http://www.shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/showthread.php/3078-Dean-s-(Ec)-vs-BlueBolts-(TDS)

With RO and minerals the instructions say to add the minerals until you get an EC of a certain amount. The thread above shows you how to convert TDS to EC depending on your pen. :)

[shrimpstan]

measuring ur tap water then ur tank water helps u figure out what needs to be done. low pH fish or shrimp thrive in low TDS water. however the opposite can occur. low pH shrimp living in low pH but high TDS and may not thrive. this can be fatal. so there are two ways of analysing your TDS result: (using an example of 300ppm)

1. 300ppm straight from the tap is high (unkown combination of unkown elements)

2. 300ppm using R/O then re mineralise is safe and good..

the TDS rises once in the tank but dependent on many factors.. leading to eventual water changes or top ups.

by re mineralising after R/O with certain products u can judge what makes up u ur initial reading, more or less. from the tap, using a simple TDS pen, u will never know what minerals and at what amount individually each of these unkown minerals is at. for example u could have a fatal level of copper and not really know it by using TDS pen (must test for copper itself). other elements are fatal at higher levels also and so this creates 'guess work'.. and that could lead to expensive deaths.

from what i can gather the best TDS for CRS and the like is anything from 150-300 ppm. strictly speaking this water is excellent drinking water, while >1200ppm is unfit to drink (world standards of drinking water). when i first got my pen my TDS was 330ppm. after some thought and testing waters i realised it was the added salts that were rasing my TDS.

so after i got my pen i set about slowly lowering my TDS simply by doing regular small water changes every 3-4 days, never more than 5L at a time using a drip barrell set very slow. my tank is 120-130L. over the course of 6 weeks i lowered the TDS from 330ppm to 170ppm and my shrimp have never been happier. the difference was massive and obvious.. with each week i kept getting more and more berried girls and saw alot of moults and activity. they obviously liked what was happening so from then i stopped using salts. using azoo minerals and mironecton powder half doses to add the minerals as my tap TDS is only 70ppm :)

this was just my experience based on my research. trust me its no 'golden rule' or anything close to that. just belief. although i'd say im not far off.

my next step is the inevitable R/O and a whole bunch of minerals.. to know exactly what make up my TDS reading.. or most of it anyway.. and i beleive thats the defference. even though my TDS is very low compared to most other areas.. i still cant determine what makes up the initial 70ppm and thats why the R/O i guess.. just to be sure (plus the low pH side effect is also beneficial). anyways i always wanted a water purifier and this makes a good excuse to get one.. coincidenty im soon getting the one in this months comp! :) and im not even paying for it!! double :)

TDS,as well as EC for that matter, are underated and not talked about enough at the earlier stages in the hobby. its really important and can give u a numerical guide as to when ur due for a water change and monitor quality levels.. instead of using the.. 'yeah the water looks a bit dirty better do a water change' method.. although this works most the time with hardy fish or shrimp.. but bee shrimp are too touchy for guess work, expensive too.

hope this helps ppl understand TDS better.. (without the technicalities) :P

[al4n]

nice explanation there shrimpstan,

[shrimpstan]

yeah cheers mate. i didnt realise how long it was till i posted it.. damn late nite drunken rambling :P

[BlueBolts]

+1. Thanks shrimpstan, no doubt will give members here more of an appreciation. :applause:

[michael]

How about the other side how low is too low for tds. Ive just moved all my tanks and had to replace most of the water with rainwater due to the fact that I couldnt transport all that tank water. My tds has dropped from 130 to around 75. My shrimp seem to be happy and im slowely increasing my tds again but this sudden lowering of the tds has my females all moulting and breeding. Ive had 9 berried females in 3 days. Im not recommending doing this but I had to due to the circumstances.

Is there a low end of the tds scale or is it only the high tds that will harm shrimp. I know whatever the water parameters the key is consistency I am just curious how low it can go

[Squiggle]

I wouldn't go much lower than 80ppm, 75ppm is just below & seems to be working for you but if it stays that way then I will have detrimental effects. In nature, lowering the TDS means the rains have come & there will be an abundance of food which always triggers spawning in fish & I think this is what has caused your current success, well done mate :victorious:

[michael]

I thought the same and im slowely creeping it back up now. It may also be the fact that the water temp also lowered due to the large water change and this is also a stimulant of the big rain so it is most likely the cause of the abundance of berried shrimp. I just found it very cyrious and wonder if u could do it to help stimulate stubborn females that justvwont breed or to try get females to berry together.

[amkr]

Its also worth noting the difference in TDS between RO and RO/DI.

RO WILL HAVE A TDS READING. Mine is 20.

RO/DI should come back with a 0.

My tank is TDS 170-210

Most of that is my outrageous GH/KH

[amkr]

I thought the same and im slowely creeping it back up now. It may also be the fact that the water temp also lowered due to the large water change and this is also a stimulant of the big rain so it is most likely the cause of the abundance of berried shrimp. I just found it very cyrious and wonder if u could do it to help stimulate stubborn females that justvwont breed or to try get females to berry together.

Sudden drop in TDS works for me... I'm a total noob at this so don't take any of my advice.

BUT

The drop simulates rain, which causes them to breed.

Every 1-2 weekends I do a 10% change with pure RO, this drops my TDS by about 30. So far I've ended up with a berried RCS both times I've done it.

Could be a coincidence, but I like to think its working for me :)

[michael]

Its good to hear that others have found the the same thing. Most fish can be tricked into breeding by doing it so why not shrimp.

[amkr]

My only fear is that one day I'll go too far and drop the TDS and shock them!

So I'm hesitant to recommend it as a reliable method to breed high grades/expencive shrimp.

[michael]

I completely agree I dont feel that it is something that should be done regularly but if there is a storm building and u havevsome heavily saddled females then a stimulant might be all they need. I wont be doing as big of a change again unless I have to. But I think a change of 20 or 30. Is fairly safe as well as 2 or so degree change but I wouldnt go much more.