Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
ineke

simple genetics help please

Recommended Posts

ineke

Hi all,

If you have culls that come from good stock but are poor colour wouldn't some of their progeny still have the chance of some decent colour. I know you all go for the best and get rid of the rest but surely if they have the same genes you still will get a small proportion of good ones?

If you then buy say a good quality male and put it with the females that will then increase the quality again. I say male as preference to female because he can breed with a good number of females. Is this a good way to learn about improving stock.

My RCS are doing well and I am getting some good colour and just letting them breed for a while until the numbers build up and then cull out the lighter ones.

I've bought culls in yellow and CRS to make sure I can keep them and wasn't worried about breeding but now the bug is biting again and I want to breed these. Am I completely wasting my time ? I am doing the breeding for my own stock which can then be slowly culled but kept, not for selling. i know you should buy the best you can afford but now I have these not so beautiful shrimp I cant think to get rid of them. I also can't afford to buy a heap of good shrimp all at once but am I doing an injustice to the shrimp by using the culls? AND am I right to try to buy a good male to bring better colour ?

Cheers

Ineke:encouragement:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OzShrimp

I started with A grade CRS when i started and got a few S grades and SS pattern but not color quality so i would think there is hope but it would just take more time to establish the higher grade gene that is in them

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CNgo2006

Percentage would be very low if at all though, if lucky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke

Thanks Oz , I do intend to try and get better quality shrimp but it will take a while but for learning how it works and maybe getting a slightly better type I just wondered if it would all be too hard this way? I know what I breed would not have any resale value but at this stage in my learning that is not important to me and I have the room to keep quite a few culls so thats not a problem. I just want to know if I would be completely wasting my time but by what you have said I would at least be learning while slowly improving the stock. So is it best to get a better quality male?

Cheers

Ineke:encouragement:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke
Percentage would be very low if at all though' date=' if lucky.[/quote']

But would it be a good way to learn simple genetics with out the outlay? Probably in another few months when hubby forgets how much I spent on getting my tanks and equipement I will be able to start spending again and investing in good quality shrimp. also by then I will have decided which shrimp I would like to get serious about. But for now the purse is locked!!!! :dejection: We dont have his and her money and he isn't a tyrant but between the fish and the tanks ,equipment etc I've spent nearly $1500 since Xmas and just need to slow down . So I just thought if I can get a good male (plus I'm still trying to get at least one other female yellow) then it would be a start and maybe a good learning experience but if it is a complete waste of time then I will just have to enjoy what I have for a while and give up trying to breed until I can get good stock.

cheers

Ineke:encouragement:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ninja

Yes you are!

In dog breeding Ineke, nature tends to keep the level of a population towards the average, to get higher than average one must recognise the faults in ones own stock and pick mates that can help improve those faults. This may not result in improvement in one generation. It's not possible to fix many problems at once and the higher the standard you have it's harder still!

unfortunately shrimp don't go by these rules, there doesn't seem to be the same importance in relationship to type for instance or gait. My husband is fond of saying 'you can't get strawberry jam from cocky crap!'

if you really want to improve your shrimp and you don't mind my advice, I would suggest letting go of your cull males, sell, give away, if you sell, the money could be used to buy one or 2 nice males to put to your girls, making sure they have the improvements you want of course and then cull hard as you improve gradually.

this is not easy in dogs but much easier in shrimp, I have a little indoor pond where my culls go, lol.

dont know which breed you are trying to improve but if its CRS,for instance, maybe you could go halves in the Auction of Bluebolts 4 males with someone else in your position???? If its allowed of course????? Also Males are generally cheaper!!!!, lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Squiggle

That's the way I'm doing it Ineke, I've started with lower grades & trying to improve from there, I feel it's more satisfying this way as when I reach my goal it will be through my own doing. I feel you learn more about genetics this way too. I have also bought a higher grade male for another program, because I'm impatient, & I'll see where that one goes for me. :encouragement:

image-74_zps1d5c5eef.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke

Ninja I hear where you are coming from and I think in the long run all my culls whether bought or bred will be going into the community tank when they are big enough to survive there. I think that when I get over this little spending spree that's just what I will do with all the males at least- cull and cull heavily. In the mean time as I am getting some conflicting ideas I will work with what I have and keep the best of them so that when I can afford a better male I will at least have some thing to breed him with.

Cheers

Ineke:encouragement:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ninja

Ineke, in the meantime, your tanks will get full to overflowing. Then you won't have room for breeding better ones? Just my 2 cents worth. The main thing is to enjoy your hobby without stress, ok?

luv ya style, ninja.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ninja

By the way if I had those 2 breeds I would send a couple, foc, but don't, so sorry mate!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke

Hi Squiggle, thats the way I was leaning so I could learn a bit before I get the more expensive ones and I'm OK with the culling of the males eventually I just don't want to sit and look at empty tanks while I wait for the money to build up again. I guess if I am not selling the shrimp it probably doesn't matter and I may learn something while I play around with what I have.

My Reds are coming on strong as you saw in that photo I did yesterday. I have a very nice male now and will soon cull out all the others and just leave a few coloured boys with the darker girls, but I was warned not to cull too heavily at first in case some thing goes wrong and then I may not have any boys to go around.

But it still comes to my question about genes when 1 in a group of babies is really good and the others aren't then the genes are still the same therefore giving the chance of breeding a few good ones from a not so good one! But as ninja pointed out maybe shrimp don't work that way and as they have such short lives it probably cant be proven.

Aw well Mothers day is around the corner I will ask for some good shrimp and hope they don't buy me prawns!!!!:barbershop_quartet_

Cheers

Ineke:encouragement:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke
By the way if I had those 2 breeds I would send a couple' date=' foc, but don't, so sorry mate![/quote']

Thanks Ninja not fishing for freebies I just writing down my thoughts in the hope you all can make it clearer. Yes my tanks will be full to overflowing with culls but not for long. I will get there it might just take a bit longer. The one thing I am doing is loving the hobby and once hubby realises I'm in this for the long haul the purse strings will open up again:friendly_wink:

Cheers

Ineke:encouragement:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ninja

I know your not fishing for freebies mate, I hope I didn't offend you, was not my intention. We all have our problems, I'm just trying to work out how to tell my husband that I bought a rack when I'm not supposed to, lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke
I know your not fishing for freebies mate' date=' I hope I didn't offend you, was not my intention. We all have our problems, I'm just trying to work out how to tell my husband that I bought a rack when I'm not supposed to, lol.[/quote']

No thats OK Ninja not offended at all and it was a nice thought. Yes telling hubby can be hard sometimes just have to wait for the right moment.

I don't even know what I want to take on as a breeding project that's my trouble dabbling in too many instead of being happy with one!!!! I started with 4 free RCS when i went to buy some plants for my aquarium- hadn't even heard of shrimp - was going to try and breed some Bettas so got an extra tank for them but when 1 of the shrimp had babies and I saw the Betta home in on it ,out went the Bettas into the community tank and the rest is history. Now 4 tanks with RCS , YCS and CRS and 1 empty waiting for some possible Rillis. Unfortunately not knowing better I spent a lot of money on 2 aqua one 30 cubes that hold 20 litres and while they are really nice they fluctuate in temperature too much in the hot weather. The 2 bigger tanks are fine. I should have spent the money on good quality shrimp instead but the tanks will always be there and the shrimp will come and go.

Cheers

Ineke:encouragement:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Squiggle

Lol, too funny ninja, how will you hide it till the time is right? Lol :encouragement:

I'm not very experienced with shrimp genetics but I hoping its similar to fish. With Bettas, which I know a fair bit about, it only take one "mutant" fry to show a trait that is desirable, you breed that with another sibling which has the closest traits to the one your looking for, the fry from that should give you a few more with the desirable traits & either larger, longer or more colour, depending on what you're chasing. In the past I changed a whole colour of a line & it started with one fish out of 250fry with a tiny spot of the colour I thought was pretty cool, took about six generations & another three to breed true but I got there :victorious:

image-74_zps08e342a3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke

Yay Squiggle that's what I'm talking about. If the culls I have come from the same gene pool as the better shrimp and I get 1 or 2 with better colour then that's where I start the line breeding but if nothing good shows up and I keep a few of the best girls and by then I should be able to buy a better male and even possibly a female or 2 then I have a small nucleus to start with. By keeping the best in each batch remembering they had good genes originally then I may get some throw backs worth keeping.

I know when I first bred and showed guinea Pigs I ended up with over 100 GP's before eventually getting the quality and the colour I was after. With them I had to start from scratch breeding white crested to red crested to get a red with a white crest with no white anywhere else and also without a fault called side whiskers. It took months but I eventually got there but we went through a lot of breeding and back breeding to do it. so thats why I thought the shrimp would be the same!

Cheers

Ineke:encouragement:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ninja

Lol, maybe he won't notice it, ha ha!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke
Lol' date=' maybe he won't notice it, ha ha![/quote']

I don't like your chances!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke

images1jpggp_zps0f4917fd.jpgamerican crested guinea pig please note this is not one of mine but what I was breeding.

Cheers

Ineke

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ninja

I'm really scared lol. I'm gunna sneak it in when he's away the next couple of days. When he notices i will say, "OMG, where on earth did that come from?" "Did you buy it for me?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke

bahaha I was just going to tell you to do that. Gosh us girls are wicked in every sense of the word. The poor men don't stand a chance LOL

Cheers

Ineke:encouragement:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Squiggle

Wow, looks very cool Ineke :encouragement:

image-74_zps9d23dc0f.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ineke

I do believe that Donkey has a smile on its face!!!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BlueBolts
I do believe that Donkey has a smile on its face!!!!!!

OMG ineke, my whole perspective and vision of you has changed ! LOL.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Squiggle

Lol, gold BB, just gold! :encouragement:

image-74_zps76e3d817.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  



  • Join Our Community!

    Register today, ask questions and share your shrimp and fish tank experiences with us!

  • Posts

    • Cesar
      Yep, I see it too... Will look into this... Recently upgraded to the latest forum software... Always bugs to fix afterward... Thanks @Grubs for bringing this to my attention.
    • Grubs
      I'm getting an error loading Articles but only when signed in to the forum.  Tested with  latest Firefox Quantum 69.0  and Edge.  Articles load perfectly  if I sign out, but not when signed in.
    • jayc
      If not prime,  you will have to use another de-chlorinator, as chlorine  will kill the bacteria. It might still cycle with prime,  but maybe a bit longer. Do you have access to one that doesn't bind ammonia?  No need to change the water  until you see ph drop below 6.5.
    • Razzy
      Hi, I'm cycling a tank ATM and I'm using Dr Tim's ammonia, stability and I do have prime. But I was wondering if prime would stall the cycle since the bacteria need ammonia to feed and prime turns it into a.non toxic form?  My ammonia's been pretty high for the past week and I've been trying to do a partial water change to keep the levels down, not going down, no nitrites. But I did just start cycling it last week.
    • kms
      It wasn't intentional, I was just putting the new shrimps into the tank, the dead shrimp just fell into the tank. I just purchased another 10 crabs today to make it a total of 22, but the shop put a few more in the bag for me, I will be keeping about 10 crabs, the others are for two of my friends, there tanks isn't setup yet, as these crabs are hard to obtain in Hong Kong, the last time I saw them available was over 5 years ago.
×
×
  • Create New...