Fishmosy's zebra shrimp biotope tank

[ineke]

Well done Ben that's fantastic. It's exciting for any babies but the Natives are such an unknown quantity- well until now :encouragement:

[Wraithie]

Woo! soo many little ones :) How exciting!

[wayne6442]

Hi Ben, Well done Mate, very happy for you. My Zeb's look like they took a beating last weekend I can only find two adults ATM. Looks like the others have died out.

[fishmosy]

That is fantastic ..... congratulations!

I will have to reread the whole thing again now and try to duplicate your success.

Thanks everyone, I was really stoked to find them.

I encourage everyone to give these guys a go, hopefully this thread will be a good 'how to' guide for lots of people.

[fishmosy]

Well done mate' date=' how did you get rid of the nasties?[/quote']

I grabbed any I saw with tweezers (only two) and the rest underwent metamorphosis to adults as I found a couple more shells.

I've dried some rainforest leaves at 60*C for 5days and fed them to the tank on friday (perfect timing for the new babies) so I'm hoping that should keep them out now for good.

[JohnH]

Wow that's awesome!!

[fishmosy]

Hi Ben' date=' Well done Mate, very happy for you. My Zeb's look like they took a beating last weekend I can only find two adults ATM. Looks like the others have died out.[/quote']

Thats a real shame Wayne. They were going so well. I don't know if you can breed tolerance to severe turbulence into your shrimp! :encouragement:

[ninja]

Thanks everyone' date=' I was really stoked to find them.

I encourage everyone to give these guys a go, hopefully this thread will be a good 'how to' guide for lots of people.[/quote']

Wouldn't it be better to wait to you have 3 or 4 generation tank bred babies, that way they would have hopefully adapted to being in different conditions to nature and easier to keep? Just like the tank bred Sulawesi Shrimp do?

[fishmosy]

Thoughts

I was talking to one of the guys who got some zebras a few years back but failed to breed them and they all died off whilst I was in Brisbane over the weekend. He indicated that very few people had been able to keep the zebs alive, let alone breeding. He put it down to keeping the zebs in with exotic shrimp, his theory being that the zebs caught a disease from the exotics.

That got me thinking. I think it is possible that his theory is/was right as the first ever zebs I got from Bob perished over a period of two weeks as I had them in a hanging breeder box on a tank filled with RCS. However I also know water parameters weren't ideal for zebs (TDS and pH way too high) and I didn't feed leaves.

With this in mind, I believe the success I have enjoyed so far has been due to two factors:

1. Water quality. The zebs need low TDS. They come from streams which are essentially pure rainwater.

2. Leaves. I believe leaves are an essential part of their diet, if not the greatest proportion of their diet. I always have leaves available and whilst I use IAL occasionally, I prefer to use rainforest type leaves which I collect myself. Why? Well the IAL tannins make the water go yellow which I don't want for this tank. 2. I suspect that because leaves seem to be an essential food that the zebs are adapted to eating leaves from native aus plants. Think of it like this, a koala eats only eucalyptus leaves and won't gain what it needs if fed leaves from exotic trees. This is only guessing on my part and I haven't tested it to be sure, but it seems logical to me.

I also feed benibachi kale tablets, which the shrimp have learnt to pounce on much like any CRS or RCS.

[fishmosy]

Wouldn't it be better to wait to you have 3 or 4 generation tank bred babies' date=' that way they would have hopefully adapted to being in different conditions to nature and easier to keep? Just like the tank bred Sulawesi Shrimp do?[/quote']

If you are happy to wait, sure!

I don't know how much easier the zebs will get to be through breeding. Sure, they will probably breed easier like RCS has gotten easier. However I keep mine at water parameters very similar to wild, so will the offspring be more tolerant to a wider range of water parameters? I can't be certain.

The other thing is that the shrimp keeping gods can be fickle beasts, blessing you in the morning and cursing you in the afternoon. At least if there are 20 people breeding zebs then the risk of a long-term power outage or an asteroid strike (ridiculous but you get the point) killing off all the tank bred zebs in Aus falls dramatically.

[Wraithie]

What sorts of rainforest leaves do you use? I'm very keen to gives these guys a shot following somewhat in your footsteps but definitely need to make sure I'm well prepared.

[fishmosy]

I have plenty of rainforest close by so I just grab a few handfuls of whatever leaves collect in the creek. Couldn't tell you what type they are. I will post pics both of the leaves and trees in the zeb habitat and at places where I grab leaves.

[Squiggle]

I was talking to one of the guys who got some zebras a few years back but failed to breed them and they all died off whilst I was in Brisbane over the weekend. He indicated that very few people had been able to keep the zebs alive' date=' let alone breeding. He put it down to keeping the zebs in with exotic shrimp, his theory being that the zebs caught a disease from the exotics.

That got me thinking. I think it is possible that his theory is/was right as the first ever zebs I got from Bob perished over a period of two weeks as I had them in a hanging breeder box on a tank filled with RCS. However I also know water parameters weren't ideal for zebs (TDS and pH way too high) and I didn't feed leaves.

With this in mind, I believe the success I have enjoyed so far has been due to two factors:

1. Water quality. The zebs need low TDS. They come from streams which are essentially pure rainwater.

2. Leaves. I believe leaves are an essential part of their diet, if not the greatest proportion of their diet. I always have leaves available and whilst I use IAL occasionally, I prefer to use rainforest type leaves which I collect myself. Why? Well the IAL tannins make the water go yellow which I don't want for this tank. 2. I suspect that because leaves seem to be an essential food that the zebs are adapted to eating leaves from native aus plants. Think of it like this, a koala eats only eucalyptus leaves and won't gain what it needs if fed leaves from exotic trees. This is only guessing on my part and I haven't tested it to be sure, but it seems logical to me.

I also feed benibachi kale tablets, which the shrimp have learnt to pounce on much like any CRS or RCS.[/quote']

I have to say I like your theories Ben & would like to subscribe to your newsletter, lol Seriously though, I think you might be on to something there dude, it all definitely makes a lot of sense, well done dude! :victorious:

[northboy]

Just to add to Bens theory, I have always used leaves in the ponds and tanks with them.

As for what type of leaves? I gather mine from Rainforest creeks to and Mulberry, AIL and Ice Cream bean leaves as well as what ever food is going.

I do not keep them with other shrimp (yet)

Bob

[Baccus]

Have you ever given your shrimp the ice cream bean fruit/ pods? I know my goldfish quite like eating them when they fall in their pond and one of my dogs is especially addicted to eating the beans. But then he would prefer a carrot or apple over a fresh meaty bone. Just a guess but I reckon quongdong leafs and fruit would also go down a treat with the zebs.

[northboy]

No way on the Icecream beans they are mine, but any non toxic fruit and leaves would be OK.

In saying that I have not seen them eating the fallen fruit in the wild only leaves

Bob

[fishmosy]

I have another theory which hypotheses zebs either aren't susceptible to diseases from other shrimp (water quality, not disease) OR can be acclimated/inoculated against these diseases (assumes it is a disease).

I read a few years back on an overseas forum about how a keeper was losing shrimp (CRS) when mixed with shrimp (CRS) from another location/seller. He came to the conclusion that the shrimp were dying due to a lack of immunity to bacteria that arrived with new shrimp. His solution was to put the new shrimp in a seperate tank beside the old shrimp, and transfer a cup of water from one tank to the other (and vice versa) daily for a month. The theory being that small amounts of bacteria would be transfered between tanks and shrimp would have time to acclimate to these new bacteria before the new shrimp were introduced. He claimed that before using this technique, he had losses as high as 90%, whereas after using this technique his losses were zero.

Do I think this technique might have some merit? Yes. Why? Well every time I use a net in my RCS or CRS tanks I purposefully allow a few drops of water to drip into my zeb tank. I've yet to have a zeb death since they first arrived. Granted what I have done so far doesn't actually prove anything because the amount of water being moved between tanks is small and I've yet to try keeping zebs and other shrimp together.

Now that I have a burgeoning population it might be time to test this theory.

[Baccus]

The theory of adding a little of another shrimp tanks water to any new shrimps tank, reminded me of something else with regards to water and also put me in mind of the issues people have had with keeping and breeding discus. Firstly I recall reading some where that almost pure water like rain water barely sustains bacteria (good or bad), which in turn could explain the zebra shrimps apparent intolerance to anything that is currently in our aquariums. Secondly many people ran into problems with discus when they where mixing different fish from many different breeders. It seems that discus will evolve (for lack of a better word) to suit the water conditions that they where bred and raised in, but this mirco adaptation doesn't help them when they are placed in a new regions water with other discus which mirco adapted to totally different water stats and presence or absence of diseases.

[northboy]

Most will be too young or not kept fish long enough to know that there has been many fish that were hard to keep until they were captive breed for a few generations or kept in good conditions on their own.

Discus are one of the many that are easy to keep now, Bristlenose were hard to breed 30+ years ago and commanded big dollars from those that did breed them, that is a bit different now.

It is all about adaptation to aquarium life and conditions, each generation will automatically select aquarium suitable survivors and those that maintain their stock and tanks well, will have less trouble that those that don't.

Bb

[BlueBolts]

What a great thread, very informative. Wondered whether anyone uses UV, and if so, is the prolong acclimatisation then necessary ?

[Garnelchen]

Hello Ben

I just read through the whole thread (how did I miss that one in the past????)

What a great project and a very successful one too.

Well done! Thanks for all the interesting information on zebra shrimp and the great photos. :encouragement:

[fishmosy]

Hello Ben

I just read through the whole thread (how did I miss that one in the past????)

What a great project and a very successful one too.

Well done! Thanks for all the interesting information on zebra shrimp and the great photos. :encouragement:

Thanks, successful so far but a long breeding project awaits.

[fishmosy]

What a great thread' date=' very informative. Wondered whether anyone uses UV, and if so, is the prolong acclimatisation then necessary ?[/quote']

I dont use UV but IF there is a bacteria/disease that is transferred by water from exotics (and that is a big IF) then using a UV would prolong acclimatisation.

[fishmosy]

The theory of adding a little of another shrimp tanks water to any new shrimps tank' date=' reminded me of something else with regards to water and also put me in mind of the issues people have had with keeping and breeding discus. Firstly I recall reading some where that almost pure water like rain water barely sustains bacteria (good or bad), which in turn could explain the zebra shrimps apparent intolerance to anything that is currently in our aquariums. Secondly many people ran into problems with discus when they where mixing different fish from many different breeders. It seems that discus will evolve (for lack of a better word) to suit the water conditions that they where bred and raised in, but this mirco adaptation doesn't help them when they are placed in a new regions water with other discus which mirco adapted to totally different water stats and presence or absence of diseases.[/quote']

Bob and I have discussed this before in another zebra thread, probably in this subforum. It could be that the reason that zebras kept with other shrimp are reportedly short lived is not because there is a bacteria/disease from other shrimp but because the bacteria load in the water in CRS/RCS tanks are likely to be higher given the higher TDS.

This then opens the possibility of running a UV on a tank with zebs and exotic shrimp to see if the UV can be effective in removing some of the bacterial load and help keep the zebs alive.

This thread has really raised my interest in seeing if I can keep some zebs and CRS together. When I have some time I think i will set up a new tank with a half dozen of each type and see what happens. Ideally two tanks would be better, one with CRS water parameters and one with zeb parameters. However I think the reported zeb deaths are down to water quality, so I'll just do the zeb parameter tank.

[northboy]

You hit the nail then Ben, water quality, I can not believe that people look for every excuse not to do water changes, when it is the most effective way to keep good water

Granted it can be difficult with some of the touchy types in crap water areas, but it has always given me the results on everything, both here and in Brisbane.

At the moment I have some Crystal types outside with Cherries and they have been up to 28c and are water changes nearly every day, they are growing well

Bob