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Line Breeding Native Shrimp


sajica
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Something's stuck in my mind. Something that has actually been on my mind for a while. It was a factious comment said by a friend on a fb shrimp group.

"Can someone line breed one of our native shrimp ?

See if you can keep a constant trait in it? Start with Ninja shrimp from aquagreen and see what you can do?

Much cheaper than buying a shrimp that someone has already line bred. And think how much a true coloured Aussie native shrimp would be worth OS?"

Of course me being me was being factious back and commented that "..it's easier to bum off someone else's work"

This has got me back to thinking. What species do we have access too, that would be a great basis to start a selective breeding program?

Thoughts? (Besides zebras)

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Yeah, I've got no knowledge of ALL the native shrimps we have here, but definitely the zebras have potential..... another tank/project there Chris ?

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Yellow form C. indistincta

C. Species Mitchell river (red)

C. sp Short ck

the new one from near Coen no name or collection place data to give it a sp name yet and I am a bit dubious about that one?

All of them have eggs close to Cherry shrimp around 1mm and are there fore easy to breed, most others are small egg species and hard to breed. if that makes sense?

The project has HUGE potential HUGE, I had Zebs breeding towards Black a natural trait and whitish ones on the way, both times lost them in house moves, no more moves now YAHOO!!

Bob

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Sajica, I saw that thread as well on the FB page.

It would be good if we get some good aussie shrimp line breeding going.

Positives is that they might be more heat tolerant than crystal shrimp.

Problem- can you line breed a chameleon or a riffel because they can change colour depending on their mood.

Other Aussie shrimp species could work. =)

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You have to be selective about the ones you try as some are hard to reproduce, it all depends on egg size that is why Cherries and Crystals have dome so well, they have big eggs and are easy to reproduce.

Chameleon and Riffel have the ability to change with there mood so locking down a colour might be hard, saying that I had a albino Riffel a few years back wild caught.

Another one to try with big eggs is Paratya. They have many many regional variations.

Bob

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I've heard of several guys trying to line breed a blue native shrimp ( guessing Paratya species or chameleons from descriptions). Biggest problem they had was getting the buggers to stay blue, let alone breed. Natural colour variance for many native shrimp could make things difficult but I think if you obtain the right breeding stock anything is possible.

I've caught similar shrimp (haven't ID it yet) in local creeks that are a magnificent blue when first caught but lose it in the aquarium. Until I find some that stay blue, or until I find a way to keep them blue, there isn't much point in trying to line breed them.

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I think that would be the biggest problem with line breeding our natives is that they wont stay one colour and in a tank can tend to be more clear than anything.

However overseas many of the newer shrimp colour variations have come about from cross breeding caridina species. So maybe the potential in getting a good solid trait that doesn't change with moods is incorporating Australian Chameleon shrimp with another caridina that is more prone be being colourless in tanks.

Also just the simple case of keeping and breeding more natives in tanks could bring about more permanant colouration or different colours. Foxes in the farmed fur trade only began having other colours from the wild form after a few generations of captivity. And from those new colours also came some foxes that where genetically programed to be tamer more human friendly foxes.

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Every thing we breed will turn up odd colours it is a matter om time and the big one commitment.

The first colour we are likely to see is Red as it is one of the major camouflage colours Shrimp have and from there any thing is possible

Blue is a stress colour so I would not rely on that being the first colour to show.

I very positive that Native shrimp will turn up different colours, but you have to start with a shrimp that is breedable not one that is hard to breed= egg size

Bob

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Biggest problem with a lot of natives is they have larva stages rather than having live births to small shrimplettes.

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Chameleons breed without larval stages. Chameleons are hard to lock in the colour though, mine change from pitch black to red to stripey all the time. However, why isn't there a market for these shrimp as they are? I reckon they look pretty good as is.

Zebras would be another excellent one, very pretty shrimp.

Heres some of my chameleons.

P1240074_zpsc66ad1c1.jpg The berried one isn't a chameleon by the way.

P1240073_zps8cf33fff.jpg

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Chameleons:

However' date=' why isn't there a market for these shrimp as they are? I reckon they look pretty good as is. [/quote']

You are absolutely right mate. I think the problem has been a lack of exposure to the mainstream hobby. Cherries are everywhere, in almost every shop you walk into, its a shame that our natives aren't. Pics like yours will help to encourage others to keep these shrimp so please keep them coming.

I still think zebras are the most obvious pick of the bunch for line breeding projects, but don't discount shrimp that require more effort because of larval stages. It has been done before so there is no reason why it won't work.

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It's funny Pet City in brisbane is trying to palm off shrimp like the one in mr_c265's first shot as bamboo line cherries for like $30 each and when i pointed out that they were chameleon shrimp I was told that I was wrong. went there yesterday looking for some good male cherries but wasn't paying what they were trying to charge

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It's funny Pet City in brisbane is trying to palm off shrimp like the one in mr_c265's first shot as bamboo line cherries for like $30 each and when i pointed out that they were chameleon shrimp I was told that I was wrong. went there yesterday looking for some good male cherries but wasn't paying what they were trying to charge

I nearly peed my pants when i first saw the one in my tank, thought it was a black cherry, easy mistake, but a shop should really know better. Good to know someone out there is selling chameleons though.

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I've seen cull grade cherries there being sold as sakura grade, not to mention a rilli that was sold to us without the slightest mention of the word rilli. We didn't bother to try and correct the shop assistant on the rilli, as he couldn't explain what a bamboo line cherry was and wouldn't listen when we said they weren't cherries. Its no wonder our natives are so undervalued.

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You guys are way off the mark. I don't want to cause a controversy with what I am about to type and with out you being able to see the shrimp its hard to explain.

Egg size is all important, large eggs like Crystals and Cherries is what has made them so easy to breed and so popular.

We have a number of shrimp with the same size eggs and NOT Laval stage.

The sp after the C. for Caridina is to show they are discovered but not officially named yet, until the Taxonomic work is done they have a locational or time of year name.

C. indistincta egg size 1mm

C. zebra egg size 1mm

C. sp short ck egg size.9mm

C sp november egg size .8mm

C. gracilirostris egg size .5mm

C. serratirostris egg size .4mm

C. typus egg size .4mm

There is lots more I just put up a few examples.

From all the Zeb populations I conclude that Black and White will be the prevalent out come for a while, as there is no variation from Black and White, blue is a stress colour in Zebs, how ever there is a blue population and if some one was found with them it would be so not worth it as they are from a NP.s

Something like indistincta and short ck have various colours in the wild and will produce more colours sooner.

Why haven't I done it? simple I have been renting until a few months ago and not had the space I will be breeding a number of species for colour that fit the plan ASAP.

Some thing like indistincta has a wide distribution and variations with in the population and big eggs so is set to be the best bet.

Bob

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I get what you are saying Bob, and you are right. However, there also has to be some hint of the trait (i.e. some genetic capacity) which you want to breed for, something that attracts you to spending your time breeding that shrimp. Given that I'm a sucker for bright colours and strong patterns, I want to start with a shrimp that shows these traits. I'll admit that I haven't seen enough native shrimp (especially in the flesh) to rule out most of the shrimp on your list, but zebras do attract me.

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Yeah.... Very disappointed with that shop. They told me they had a green tiger which I identified as a chameleon and I told them and they insisted they were right...it's kinda comforting to hear that I wasn't the only one who experienced this...

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You guys are way off the mark. I don't want to cause a controversy with what I am about to type and with out you being able to see the shrimp its hard to explain.

Egg size is all important' date=' large eggs like Crystals and Cherries is what has made them so easy to breed and so popular.

We have a number of shrimp with the same size eggs and NOT Laval stage.

The sp after the C. for Caridina is to show they are discovered but not officially named yet, until the Taxonomic work is done they have a locational or time of year name.

C. indistincta egg size 1mm

C. zebra egg size 1mm

C. sp short ck egg size.9mm

C sp november egg size .8mm

C. gracilirostris egg size .5mm

C. serratirostris egg size .4mm

C. typus egg size .4mm

There is lots more I just put up a few examples.

From all the Zeb populations I conclude that Black and White will be the prevalent out come for a while, as there is no variation from Black and White, blue is a stress colour in Zebs, how ever there is a blue population and if some one was found with them it would be so not worth it as they are from a NP.s

Something like indistincta and short ck have various colours in the wild and will produce more colours sooner.

Why haven't I done it? simple I have been renting until a few months ago and not had the space I will be breeding a number of species for colour that fit the plan ASAP.

Some thing like indistincta has a wide distribution and variations with in the population and big eggs so is set to be the best bet.

Bob[/quote']

Bob When you have some C.short creek available please let me know. They certainly look like something to play with :)

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For any one going down the Zeb path you have to keep them on there own, I keep them on there own and this is when I have the best success, keeping them on there own you don't infect them with viruses from other shrimp, my losses have been from the rare heat wave or when I move and I only worked this out recently, when i move they go into a different tank and are cross infected from the shrimp that were in there before.

I have not long ago finished a thermal tolerance project on the Zebs and will put it up soon. So the other thing that knocks them is the cross infection from other shrimp.

As for line breeding the chameleon, if it were going to happen they have them in Asia so they would have done it! also have a look at the wild Cherry, it is not to different to some of our species?

All that is needed to succeed is the commitment and drive to do it, OH and for me the dam fish room done LOL

All I am trying to do is change every ones view to our Natives and point them in the right direction to get the job done.

NATIVES RULE

Bob

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Bob in your experience, will allowing a tank to completely dry before setting up with completely new substrate and ornaments ect. prevent this cross contamination/disease for zebras?

Would you recommend instead a strong disinfectant, like chlorine or high concentration salt?

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Not sure on Shrimp Viruses but fish bugs are dead in 7 days with out a host for the most part. I would be happy to do it.

I think we have to work on getting the Zeb's immune to the bugs around the place and keep them under 26c. If I get time ,got to pack fish to go to the Gold coast this arvo, I will do the heat tolerances of Zeb's, it is only my findings not set in stone.

Bob

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Thanks Bob.

Its not surprising that zebs are susceptible to bugs from other shrimp. They occur in isolated areas alongside a closely related shrimp, with little (probably no) connectivity between other river systems, so have evolved to cope only with the bugs that occur locally.

Correct me if I'm wrong Bob, but its my understanding the water zebs come from is slightly acidic and soft (basically rainwater) with a bit of tannin (chemicals that leach from organic material that give water a brown appearance). These conditions are not conducive to the growth of bacteria. this would also affect the immunity levels of zebs, similar to the way in which wild caught discus (fish) have low immunity due to living in water that has almost no bacteria due to having a very low pH (pH 3-5).

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