Need help with a diagnosis

[crustaceanfrustration]

some pictures. i am having trouble diagnosing my OERBT ,what could these be? 

gh -9 

kh - 3 

video 1

video 2

any help would be appreciated , thank you.

[sdlTBfanUK]

Sorry for the delayed reply!

The shrimp looks like it is very active and happy enough, though the clear section of shell does look a bit out of place. Has it always been like that?

I can't see any other worrying signs in the videos or photos. The GH is a bit high and if you could get that down to aroound 6 or 7 would be better. The KH seems fine.

It looks from the attachments that it has the same clear patch on both sides so maybe it is just a less than top quality shrimp, but may otherwise be healthy? Or it maybe the start of a molt?

It maybe that you should just keep an eye on it for now!

[crustaceanfrustration]

3 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Sorry for the delayed reply!

The shrimp looks like it is very active and happy enough, though the clear section of shell does look a bit out of place. Has it always been like that?

I can't see any other worrying signs in the videos or photos. The GH is a bit high and if you could get that down to aroound 6 or 7 would be better. The KH seems fine.

It looks from the attachments that it has the same clear patch on both sides so maybe it is just a less than top quality shrimp, but may otherwise be healthy? Or it maybe the start of a molt?

It maybe that you should just keep an eye on it for now!

thank you so much for the quick reply! any help at the moment is very much appreciated.

so doing more research and asking reputable breeders, i was told it could be a “short skirt or carapace” and or an “open carapace”. 

they are as active as they can be , grazing and eating, swimming normally and doing shrimp things. 

haven’t had a single one die on me yet( or any i could see, maybe they gobbled them up before i saw)

i’m just worried that they’re suffering and i can’t do anything about it.

I use RODI with Salthy shrimp gh/kh+, something might be up with my salts because even with the right measurements i get 9 gh/ 3 kh . i was hoping for 8/4 but i am happier with consistency rather than perfect parameters. they are pretty close to what the “breeder” kept them at.

i am also kind of annoyed because if this is the genetic defect that causes short skirt or open carapace. i can’t believe the breeder saying they know nothing about this and have never seen it in their shrimp. these are my first aquatic pets and i feel like i got taken advantage of.

i have more pictures and videos if that would help!

any more insight on this would be great , and if this is something i can help, i am open to all and any suggestions! 

if ifs just an aesthetic issue, i will do the right thing and never give these to anyone or sell them. i just want my shrimp to live a happy life.

thank you everyone who sees this and can help!

Edited November 9, 2022 by crustaceanfrustration

[jayc]

Hi @crustaceanfrustration, that is definitely Short Skirt genetic defect.

Unfortunately, there isn't much anyone can do about it to improve the condition, except to not let it keep breeding and carrying forward those genes.

 

[sdlTBfanUK]

Thats a new one on me short skirt defect, always good to learn something new.

It looks like the shell is normal (though not that clear) but just has no colour as far as I can see on the videos and picture so I don't know whether that is what 'short skirt' is or not (by the name it sounds like that defect wouldn't have normal shell shape)? These shrimps were bred from tiger shrimp which had clear areas from the start so it could just be a lower quality issue? Can you see whether the clear parts have shell, albeit clear?

As JayC points out, if it is a genetic issue then that could be passed on to any offspring. If it is just down to poor quality of pattern that may also be passed on through breeding of coarse. The shrimp looks happy enough (I doubt any shrimp that active is suffering) and very active! It will have to be your decision on whether you keep it or not? How many shrimp have you got and where did you get them, hobbyist or specialist etc? Who ever it was should have seen these clear patches. Is there just the one with this 'problem'?

You are right to just keep the parameters stable and as this probably isn't anything to do with the water or any disease it makes sense to just carry on as is, and as you sy you are.

[jayc]

Short skirt, Open skirt, those are just some of the common names for this genetic condition.

It's where the carapace does not cover the entire body and exposes part of the gills/internal organs.

We see a lot of it with shrimp here in Australia. Our borders are closed to new shrimp from being imported. That means no new genetics. So the shrimps we already have in the country are from a very small gene pool.

The shrimp itself can be healthy otherwise and live a long life. But if it breeds and passes those genes along, the next generation could have this same problem as well.

[crustaceanfrustration]

1 hour ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Thats a new one on me short skirt defect, always good to learn something new.

It looks like the shell is normal (though not that clear) but just has no colour as far as I can see on the videos and picture so I don't know whether that is what 'short skirt' is or not (by the name it sounds like that defect wouldn't have normal shell shape)? These shrimps were bred from tiger shrimp which had clear areas from the start so it could just be a lower quality issue? Can you see whether the clear parts have shell, albeit clear?

As JayC points out, if it is a genetic issue then that could be passed on to any offspring. If it is just down to poor quality of pattern that may also be passed on through breeding of coarse. The shrimp looks happy enough (I doubt any shrimp that active is suffering) and very active! It will have to be your decision on whether you keep it or not? How many shrimp have you got and where did you get them, hobbyist or specialist etc? Who ever it was should have seen these clear patches. Is there just the one with this 'problem'?

You are right to just keep the parameters stable and as this probably isn't anything to do with the water or any disease it makes sense to just carry on as is, and as you sy you are.

so when i look at it in person, it does not just look like a “clear shell” , but looks like somethings exposed , i originally though the shell was becoming “clear” but no , it’s definitely an exposed gills or organs.

when i first got them there was 0 sign of any defect but as a new shrimp keeper , i wouldn’t have known what to look for . but as they get older, i have 2 out of 20 that i bought , where i can clearly see the open skirt defect. 

i bought most of them as juvies all before breeding age. they haven’t started breeding. 

unfortunarely i think on some of them smaller ones, i’m seeing a thin white line developing where the carapace meets the tail section. 

it’s hard for me to believe that the breeder who said he’s been breeding for years and imported these from germany, did not know of these defects. 

like i said, i hope they will not suffer at all and live a relatively normal life. from what i’m seeing this is mostly an aesthetic issue unless it gets worse? i’m not too sure as i couldn’t find much literature on it. 

could anyone shine more light on this?

[crustaceanfrustration]

1 hour ago, jayc said:

Short skirt, Open skirt, those are just some of the common names for this genetic condition.

It's where the carapace does not cover the entire body and exposes part of the gills/internal organs.

We see a lot of it with shrimp here in Australia. Our borders are closed to new shrimp from being imported. That means no new genetics. So the shrimps we already have in the country are from a very small gene pool.

The shrimp itself can be healthy otherwise and live a long life. But if it breeds and passes those genes along, the next generation could have this same problem as well.

ah i see, this is all making sense now. 

so this is mostly an aesthetic issue? i’m glad i wasn’t the cause of this cause i’ve been very sad about the news. 

i’m just going to let them live their best lives in the tank , i won’t be spreading this around . if i can i will try and separate the ones with open skirt, if not that’s fine too.

is there anything at all that i can do for them? and does this affect breeding at all? in terms of slowing it down or maybe even not allowing it? 

thank you so much for clearing things up. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by crustaceanfrustration

[jayc]

8 hours ago, crustaceanfrustration said:

so this is mostly an aesthetic issue? i’m glad i wasn’t the cause of this cause

As far as I can tell, yes, it's just aesthetic. 

 

8 hours ago, crustaceanfrustration said:

is there anything at all that i can do for them? and does this affect breeding at all? in terms of slowing it down or maybe even not allowing it?

Not much you can do to improve on their condition. 

I'd recommend culling them. And replace them from a different breeder. Thereby improving on your gene pool. 

Or move them to another tank, to avoid them breeding and passing the defect on. If you want to keep them, just treat them normally. 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by jayc