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Found my first dead shrimp. Looks like a failed molt. Is this an isolated issue?


alkemist

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Today, after introducing my shrimp about a month ago, I found my first dead shrimp ? They all were seemingly well and happy and I have a few berried ladies. Today I looked in my tank this morning and saw 3 good molts. Probably female so I was excited to possibly see more berried mamas. Then I look in the corner and see a very obvious dead male shrimp, 1 of the 3, maybe 4 that I had. Which was kind of a blow to my colony building. Anyhow, is this an isolated incident? Everyone had molted many times without a problem until today. There are no predators in the tank. Only 1 small nerite snail. I have noticed that sometimes the females will have the white line/ring but then they thankfully come out molting without an issue.

About the tank itself. 9 gallon low tech planted. Fertilize lightly (low nitrate fertilizer) twice a week. I had been doing 10% weekly water changes and the death of the shrimp was found during the trial run of doing a 10% water change every 2 weeks. Water change day was supposed to be on this upcoming Sunday.

Current tank parameters:

  • Ammonia 0 ppm
  • Nitrites 0 ppm
  • Nitrates 5 ppm
  • GH 7 dKH
  • KH 5 dKH
  • TDS 230
  • PH 8.1

Some things I have noticed is that my GH and KH are creeping up. It started at GH 6 dKH and KH 4 dKH. On water change day, I set my TDS down to 210 (when it was weekly). PH is higher too, previously around 7.8. I use a PH pen so I do need to check calibration.

My Brazilian Pennywort is having new growth, but a lot of the old leaves is getting weak or dying. The shrimp are munching on the weak leaves hardcore. The rest of my plants are doing ok with slow growth. I try occasionally to feed them additional food, such as Glasgarten Mineral Junkies, Aquatic Arts snowflake and bee pollen, but they take no interest in the food right now. I do dose a very small amount of Bacter AE on a weekly basis. My rocks should be inert and shouldn't be leaching into the water, not sure if it's the uneaten mineral junkie pellet? I don't give them a full stick, I have been trying to pinch off a tiny portion to test feed.

I'm not sure if something is going wrong and/or if I need to go back to weekly water changes? Was this an unlucky isolated incident? Am I going up against a ticking time bomb? I'm still waiting on my first batch of shrimplets (looks like maybe 5 eggs for my earliest mom) ?

4 - Mn7UOXp.jpg

2 - pz25FE9.jpg

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Edited by alkemist
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1 hour ago, alkemist said:

My rocks should be inert

What rock do you have? 

 

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33 minutes ago, jayc said:

What rock do you have? 

 

The rocks were supposedly identified as banded jasper, which should be inert. After soaking a sample of the rock, there was no increase to GH or KH in RODI water.

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I wouldn't worry too much about one dead shrimp at this stage as the whole process of shipping and different water parameters (yours and sellers were quite different) is very stressful to shrimp and from what I have read of your posts so far you are doing extremely well. I always expect to lose a shrimp or 2 within the first month of getting them through the post!

The rising parameters are usually down to evaporation (I think we covered that previously) in which case always top up with plaiin RO water, as evaporation is pure water, or down to rocks. Your rising numbers aren't outside the optimum range for bloody mary shrimp so that isn't too concerning if there is some length of time over which this has happened?

I would do the 10% weekly water changes anyway as that isn't really too much of a chore. Though doing it fortnightly shouldn't really make much difference.

Try and do the PH test in the middle of the day as different times of day (especially first thing in the morning) can give a different figure. Also the gh and kh tests only show a rough figure anyway, if it were 4.8 it may read 4 and then 5.1 read 5 even though there is little between those figures, ie not actually a whole 1 as it appears?

Keep up the good work!

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10 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

 I always expect to lose a shrimp or 2 within the first month of getting them through the post!

I figured since they were doing so good for this long, I thought I was through the danger period. I think once I get a healthy population and colony going, a shrimp loss won't feel as hard. The next hurdle will be raising the shrimplets.

10 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

The rising parameters are usually down to evaporation (I think we covered that previously) in which case always top up with plaiin RO water, as evaporation is pure water, or down to rocks. Your rising numbers aren't outside the optimum range for bloody mary shrimp so that isn't too concerning if there is some length of time over which this has happened?

I always top off with RODI water. I do have a flat lid, it's not really seen in the photos. It covers maybe about 90% of the top, so I do still experience evaporation, but not anywhere without having any sort of lid.

I forgot to mention that during this 2 week period since my last water change, I did do some light gravel vacuuming to remove fungus on the substrate, which included small volumes of water. I did put some remineralized water back into the tank to be safe along with pure RODI. I did not do any testing of GH or KH at this time. Figured it was just a small amount, it wouldn't be an issue. Though this is probably what bumped my GH and KH up slightly. I think my substrate has stopped leaching. I looked back at my notes and there were not any real fluctuations in GH/KH. It was primarily +1 GH but like you said, it could have been from inaccurate tests.

Though I'm not sure why the PH tends to still hold higher. I made new calibration fluid and recalibrated my PH pen last night. In the morning, it still tested at 8.0 PH. I'll have to check tomorrow through the day, since today I'm doing a water change.

I'll stick with the weekly 10% water changes. Today I did a good clean, removed as much mulm and fungus on the spiderwood and substrate as I could. The longest part is dripping the water back into the tank. It takes a little babysitting since I use 2 separate jugs, but yeah, it's definitely a lot less work than my 29 gallon community tank.

10 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Keep up the good work!

Thanks!

Being new to shrimp keeping can be a little stressful at times, since shrimp are so much more delicate ?

Edited by alkemist
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Maybe an idea to look for some baby shrimp food in preparation (shipping time etc) for shrimplets. It will be a powder, most makes do one, and I used it by dipping a pin .5-1cm in the tank, then quickly in the powder, then swoosh around the tank to spread it around. You will likely get some shrimplets survive without an additional food such as these, but you should get a greater survival rate with a baby food. Below links to some on ebay.com so that you can get an ideas of what there is.

This is the one I used (mine not from this seller),

https://www.ebay.com/itm/221942300805?hash=item33accac085:g:facAAOSwiwVWSU~0

But there are others,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/262057883519?hash=item3d03ddf77f:g:dCwAAOSwyQtVr8oo

https://www.ebay.com/itm/262278665883?hash=item3d1106d69b:g:aoAAAOSw2s1U0zcr

https://www.ebay.com/itm/222314493906?hash=item33c2f9f7d2:g:McQAAOSw0dZeDD26

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184393795622?hash=item2aeeba0826:g:aRsAAOSwQZdcAH5i

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184393795622?hash=item2aeeba0826:g:aRsAAOSwQZdcAH5i

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363107435576?hash=item548ae3c438:g:UA4AAOSwXrVfYPx1

You are already using bacter ae which is also good as that encourages biiofilm to grow.

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I ordered some baby shrimp food today.

Is it normal for some of the eggs to hang out the sides, drag or even loose a few during the berried stage? I've seen a couple females that had eggs come loose. Not sure if they are stressed or they are new moms?

Edit: I was able to get a photo of what's going on.

tQ31Y5K - Imgur.jpg

Edited by alkemist
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Those look nice and healthy shrimp. I don't think there is much to worry about, or that you can do anyway at this stage. t\he shrimp have been through a lot of stress with shipping and getting used to different water so they may drop eggs, or the eggs maybe unfertilised and unviable, or they may be just a bit lose, or young/new mom as you say. The fact they are grey eggs (unless that is just because it is in the shade), I suspect they are fertilised and have used up the (yellow) yoke, but are fairly small! I think the shrimp at the top has yellow eggs as well.

When the shrimplets hatch they will be very small and clear so there is likely to be a period of a week or 2 before you will see the shrimplets. 

Just enjoy keeping an eye on them for now, nice clear photo.

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Sadly, it looks like I'm about to loose a second shrimp due to molting issue. I found it laying down like this in the morning. About 30 minutes later, it was gone and it seemed like all my shrimp were normal. There was no molt near where the shrimp was laying. Then some more time has passed, I find a shrimp (assuming the same) laying in the back of the tank holding onto roots of a plant. It was moving it's pleopods at the time. Then a little a bit later, I see a shrimp franticly jerking all over the tank until it settled down in another corner of the tank. It's looking pretty bleak now though. It is twitching a little but not moving much at all.

Now a second bad molt in about a week time is getting me worried again. I did see a fresh molt from presumably another shrimp. I'd hate to think these 2 shrimp were duds, since they all did so well and had multiple molts until this point. At the same time, I'd hate to think that something is wrong with my tank too.

I did a GH and KH test again and it does appear the GH and KH does continue to creep. I had somewhat of an explanation (excuse) last week but now I'm really not sure. I kind of doubt a tiny pinch of mineral junkies would raise it noticeably enough if it were to dissolve into the water, since my shrimp currently don't care for anything I feed them, but I left it in the dish. GH and KH after last water change was GH 6, KH 5 and testing today is GH 7 and KH 6. PH continues to stay high, which is really odd for RODI water, even remineralized.

Edit: after giving all she got, all day, she didn't make it ?

IMG_5296.jpeg

Edited by alkemist
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Sorry to hear that, hopefully she wasn't carrying eggs (it doesn't look like it from what I can see). From the photo she looks to be an adult shrimp so assuming you don't know how old she was when you got her, she may have been old when you got her. I can't see anything obviously wrong with her. If shee did have eggs hopefully they hatched before she died?

I have re-read this thread and would recommend you stop using plant ferts (these should only be needed anyway if there are no creatures in the tank, also C02 isn't advised with shrimp), you shouldn't need those with livestock present and if the shrimp aren't eating the additional food then stop feeding that for now as there must be enough natural food (biofilm) for them, but when your shrimp numbers grow you may want/need to start adding additional food then. A lot of foods come in hard pellet form and I just use a hammer to break those up (in a bag otherwise it goes everwhere). The food and ferts may explain the rising parameters and be causing/encouraging the fungus.

How many shrimp do you have in this 9 gallon tank? If you started with 10 and now have 8 you shouldn't need additional food! And losing 2 of 10 (in the first month or so) has happened to me before on several occassions when bought through the post, in fact that is what I expect when I buy them! Sometimes it is less (than 20%) but that to me is a bonus...........

I am hoping to be restocking my bloody mary shrimp tank very soon, I have ordered a new tank (old one built in light broken) which friends should be bringing and setting up tomorrow, so they will take as many of the 'wild' type boring shrimp for their general fish tank, and I can restock with bloody marys which will be great. I know after a few years the wild type will be in majority again unless I keep up with culling the poor quality ones. I will not have as many plants/weed/moss this time and the tank will be a bit bigger than the old (30L) one, similar to yours I think (40L).

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7 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Sorry to hear that, hopefully she wasn't carrying eggs (it doesn't look like it from what I can see). From the photo she looks to be an adult shrimp so assuming you don't know how old she was when you got her, she may have been old when you got her. I can't see anything obviously wrong with her. If shee did have eggs hopefully they hatched before she died?

She was not carrying eggs at the time when I first saw her. I don't know if she was and ditched them first, but I do know there were a few that weren't berried. Now that I think back, I did have one female that was a bit questionable and maybe this one was it. Early on when I first added them to my tank, I believe she developed the white ring or line of death. They were able to molt and I thought she was in the clear. It's possible this one was older at the time of arrival, so she may not had adapted to my water parameters. Maybe she just got lucky until yesterday.
 

7 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

How many shrimp do you have in this 9 gallon tank?

I started with 12 shrimp and currently have 10. My earliest berried shrimp had maybe 5 eggs that I could see. I don't believe she has them any more but I have yet to see any shrimplets in my tank ? Most of my other females are all in varied stages but I think it will still be awhile (weeks) before I see any.

I honestly question the stock of my bloody mary. They were sold to me as such but I think I got a mixed bag. I believe there are some mid to high grade cherries mixed in. One of them even has the "racing stripe" down their back which from what I read is not found in true bloody marys. I paid about $3.50 USD each, shipped. It wasn't a terrible price if I did get primarily high grade or bloody mary shrimp. I've seen ones for sale online for double or triple the price I paid for bloody mary. My LFS even wants $5+ USD a piece for a random imported neo! At the end of the day though, I enjoy my shrimp and love them just the same.
 

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You are doing very well considering the shrimp came from such extreme water. It can be difficult to tell bloody mary from good coloured normal red cherry shrimp. I have just checked the last lot I bought, which I thought were bloody mary but when I looked up the order they were actually just high grade red cherry, so may go for those again when that time comes. Even with just one type of shrimp they will throw out lower grades and then revert to boring wild type unless you are very diligent with removing inferior quality ones regularly. Not that that is something you need to even start thinking about at this stage. Hopefully you will start getting shrimplets soon. As you state, I don't think bloody mary can have the stripe? At the price you paid whatever they are they are good starter shrimps. The bloody mary you shouldn't be able to see through the shell and the colour is solid, not broken up/speckled.

Keep up with the good work and lets hope you start getting shrimplets soon.

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On 1/30/2022 at 5:29 AM, sdlTBfanUK said:

Keep up with the good work and lets hope you start getting shrimplets soon.

Thanks! For some reason, I have this real fear that something will just go wrong. I think I'll just look over at them, tank has crashed, shrimp are all dead, etc. I think once my tank starts populating, that fear will start to go away. So I seem to jump at any little change or difference.

Speaking of change.. I now see a second female shrimp with the pinkish stripe. I'm pretty sure she has been berried for awhile, so she didn't just molt. It does make me worry that the ones with the stripes are stressed in some way? I also saw an odd sight yesterday. One of the striped berried moms let a male mount her and she seemed receptive. Didn't try to buck him off or chase it away. Not sure if this is normal?

Edit: I also went back to the sellers site, the stock I bought was labeled High-Grade Cherry Shrimp (USA Bred Bloody Mary Neocaridina). Guess they are just labeling their shrimp whatever name sounds appealing and/or it's a mixed bag ?‍♀️ Some of them look like bloody marys, I think.

Edited by alkemist
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  • 2 weeks later...

Shrimp are scavengers and eat a variety of items while traversing through their natural habitats. Something that doesn't eat it first will be eaten by a shrimp. Algae, other dead shrimp, leftover fish food, living plants, and any decaying organic debris are all possibilities.

Edited by lucasbenjamin
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  • 10 months later...

If you are looking to bring your pH down a little bit (8 seems high), you could add a few Indian almond leaves.

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