Can I use my tap water for caridina?

[Josh16622]

My tap water has a reading of 60-70 tds, gh is 4 and kh is 1. So do I need to remineralize it to use it for Crs and CBS shrimps? Or do I use us straight away?

[jayc]

@Josh16622, you have excellent tap water for Caridina shrimp (CRS or CBS).

Where do you live?

That water is very close to rain water. Theoretically, you don't need to much to it if you acclimatise the shrimp to the water before adding it into a cycled tank.

You can also increase it a bit to 100 TDS, doesn't matter what the corresponding GH and KH is. You would increase the TDS with Calcium and Magnesium sulphate which does not increase pH or KH. Premixed products like Salty Shrimp GH+ is what you would buy.

But having said that, they shrimp will do well in you tap water. Just remember to dechlorinate it first.

If anyone else has any thoughts on the subject, please chime in.

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by jayc

[sdlTBfanUK]

I would go carefully with tap water, there have been many (including me), actually that should read MOST, whose tap water is 'ideal' for Caridina shrimp but it just hasn''t worked despite every effort. Just get a few shrimps as a dummy run and don't get too carried away, if they have babies and they grow up to half size you probably will be ok. Mine had shrimplets but they died whilst very young and the adults died witthin about 2-3 months (despite perfect water parameters). You can read more here if you want to,

https://skfaquatics.com/forum/forums/topic/14025-tap-water-taiwan-bee-uk-zerowater/

You should try and increase the TDS to 100-150 as well!

Simon 

[Josh16622]

21 hours ago, jayc said:

@Josh16622, you have excellent tap water for Caridina shrimp (CRS or CBS).

Where do you live?

That water is very close to rain water. Theoretically, you don't need to much to it if you acclimatise the shrimp to the water before adding it into a cycled tank.

You can also increase it a bit to 100 TDS, doesn't matter what the corresponding GH and KH is. You would increase the TDS with Calcium and Magnesium sulphate which does not increase pH or KH. Premixed products like Salty Shrimp GH+ is what you would buy.

But having said that, they shrimp will do well in you tap water. Just remember to dechlorinate it first.

If anyone else has any thoughts on the subject, please chime in.

 

I live in south east Asia, so I would just have to add calcium and magnesium sulphate? What about the rest of the items you listed in your DIY remineralizer? Do I need to add those aswell? And if it's just calcium and magnesium sulphate that needs to be added, what is the ratio? I always thought calcium and magnesium will increase the gh and kh lol.

19 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

I would go carefully with tap water, there have been many (including me), actually that should read MOST, whose tap water is 'ideal' for Caridina shrimp but it just hasn''t worked despite every effort. Just get a few shrimps as a dummy run and don't get too carried away, if they have babies and they grow up to half size you probably will be ok. Mine had shrimplets but they died whilst very young and the adults died witthin about 2-3 months (despite perfect water parameters). You can read more here if you want to,

https://skfaquatics.com/forum/forums/topic/14025-tap-water-taiwan-bee-uk-zerowater/

You should try and increase the TDS to 100-150 as well!

Simon 

Okay, I'm definitely getting the cheapest caridinas, as this will be my first time keeping them. Would you recommend adding calcium and magnesium sulphate only to my water aswell to increase the tds?

[sdlTBfanUK]

You may well be lucky enough that you can useyourwater where you are so fingers crossed it works. Just bare in mind if they start dying off it maybe the water as I have only heard of one person who has been successful with tap water and caridina/crystal shrimp!

I would buy some shrimp specific GH+ (to top up the tds) and be done, as that should have a good balance of what you/shrimp need and you won't need much as you are already half way there. You just then mix it to get to the TDS you require, and then everything should be in balance, depending on the GH and KH of the tap water you are using, and yours should be ok, though with GH4 already I would aim for TDS of 100-120, no more. It isn't reallly that expensive to buy either and lasts a long time! It will also be useful if you do end up going the RO water route, should tap water not work at some point.

I can't adviise on the proportions or mixing your own as that isn't something I would ever try with so many commercially prepared products out there, but if you can't get hold of one of these or want to try making your own I am sure there will be threads on this website? I will have a look for you in a short while and attach!

Simon

There is a complete section with various threads you may find of interest,

https://skfaquatics.com/forum/forums/forum/93-water-parameters/

Edited April 8, 2021 by sdlTBfanUK

[Josh16622]

20 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

You may well be lucky enough that you can useyourwater where you are so fingers crossed it works. Just bare in mind if they start dying off it maybe the water as I have only heard of one person who has been successful with tap water and caridina/crystal shrimp!

I would buy some shrimp specific GH+ (to top up the tds) and be done, as that should have a good balance of what you/shrimp need and you won't need much as you are already half way there. You just then mix it to get to the TDS you require, and then everything should be in balance, depending on the GH and KH of the tap water you are using, and yours should be ok, though with GH4 already I would aim for TDS of 100-120, no more. It isn't reallly that expensive to buy either and lasts a long time! It will also be useful if you do end up going the RO water route, should tap water not work at some point.

I can't adviise on the proportions or mixing your own as that isn't something I would ever try with so many commercially prepared products out there, but if you can't get hold of one of these or want to try making your own I am sure there will be threads on this website? I will have a look for you in a short while and attach!

Simon

There is a complete section with various threads you may find of interest,

https://skfaquatics.com/forum/forums/forum/93-water-parameters/

I hope I am the second person ?. I just might get the gh plus, thinking of getting the biggest one, it doesn't have an expiry date does it? Would the Gh and kh increase after I raise my tds to 100-120? Thanks for your input and the links! Appreciate it.

[jayc]

On 4/8/2021 at 2:11 PM, Josh16622 said:

so I would just have to add calcium and magnesium sulphate? What about the rest of the items you listed in your DIY remineralizer? Do I need to add those aswell? And if it's just calcium and magnesium sulphate that needs to be added, what is the ratio? I always thought calcium and magnesium will increase the gh and kh

Hi Josh.

If your tap water is a low 60 TDS, then our advice is to raise it slightly to 100-150 TDS using RO water remineralisers like Salty Shrimp GH+.

If you cannot find Salty Shrimp brand in your country, than DIY Calcium and Magnesium sulphate will do the same. The ratio is as per my DIY mix thread. 58gm Calcium sulphate to 37gm Magnesium sulphate. The other ingredients are not critical, and is an added bonus only.

If you use Sulphates, it will only increase GH, not KH.

But if you use Chlorides or Carbonates, as in Calcium Chloride or Calcium Carbonates, it will increase both GH and KH.

 

2 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

I just might get the gh plus, thinking of getting the biggest one, it doesn't have an expiry date does it?

Get the GH plus for Caridina shrimp. Or

get the GH/KH plus for Neocaridina.

No it doesn't have an expiry date. It doesn't go off as long as you can keep it dry.

 

2 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

Would the Gh and kh increase after I raise my tds to 100-120?

yes. Technically, adding anything to water that dissolves will increase TDS. 

Even something as solid as rocks can slowly dissolve in water. When the pH drops, the water becomes acidic. Acid eats into the rocks which releases carbonates, that increase TDS and also pH.

As mentioned above GH/KH+ will increase GH and KH as well as pH and TDS.

GH+ only will increase GH, and TDS only.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited April 9, 2021 by jayc

[Josh16622]

7 hours ago, jayc said:

Hi Josh.

If your tap water is a low 60 TDS, then our advice is to raise it slightly to 100-150 TDS using RO water remineralisers like Salty Shrimp GH+.

If you cannot find Salty Shrimp brand in your country, than DIY Calcium and Magnesium sulphate will do the same. The ratio is as per my DIY mix thread. 58gm Calcium sulphate to 37gm Magnesium sulphate. The other ingredients are not critical, and is an added bonus only.

If you use Sulphates, it will only increase GH, not KH.

But if you use Chlorides or Carbonates, as in Calcium Chloride or Calcium Carbonates, it will increase both GH and KH.

 

Get the GH plus for Caridina shrimp. Or

get the GH/KH plus for Neocaridina.

No it doesn't have an expiry date. It doesn't go off as long as you can keep it dry.

 

yes. Technically, adding anything to water that dissolves will increase TDS. 

Even something as solid as rocks can slowly dissolve in water. When the pH drops, the water becomes acidic. Acid eats into the rocks which releases carbonates, that increase TDS and also pH.

As mentioned above GH/KH+ will increase GH and KH as well as pH and TDS.

GH+ only will increase GH, and TDS only.

 

Hope that helps.

Hi jay

Okay, its hard to find the salty gh here. Just want to check, if I'm adding the other ingredients I just follow your ratio and mix it in my water till it reaches 100-150  tds?

 

I'll try to get the sulphate, I found some online that says fertilizer grade and for some I foind food grade , which will be the better bet? Also will caridinas be okay if the gh and kh increases?

 

Last question, if I'm using this for neos, I can just add the mixture till I reach the desired tds for neos right?

 

Thank you in advance!

[jayc]

45 minutes ago, Josh16622 said:

Just want to check, if I'm adding the other ingredients I just follow your ratio and mix it in my water till it reaches 100-150  tds?

No really. Add 500ml of RO or distilled water to the powdered mix in my recipe, ie. dilute the 106gm of powdered minerals into 500ml bottle with RO water. This is now a concentrated liquid. Which is enough to last many, many water changes. You use only enough of this concentrated liquid in your tank and water changes to raise it to 100-150 TDS. 

Say you have 1 litre of RO water or your tap water, and want to raise the TDS. Add 1ml of the remineralising mix to the RO water and test with the TDS meter. If the TDS is not at 150TDS, add a little bit more until you reach the desired TDS. 

 

[Josh16622]

13 hours ago, jayc said:

No really. Add 500ml of RO or distilled water to the powdered mix in my recipe, ie. dilute the 106gm of powdered minerals into 500ml bottle with RO water. This is now a concentrated liquid. Which is enough to last many, many water changes. You use only enough of this concentrated liquid in your tank and water changes to raise it to 100-150 TDS. 

Say you have 1 litre of RO water or your tap water, and want to raise the TDS. Add 1ml of the remineralising mix to the RO water and test with the TDS meter. If the TDS is not at 150TDS, add a little bit more until you reach the desired TDS. 

 

Okay thank you alot, I'll try to get the sulphate, I found some online that says fertilizer grade and for some I foind food grade , which will be the better bet? Also will caridinas be okay if the gh and kh increases?

 

and lastly if I'm using this for neos, I can just add the mixture till I reach the desired tds for neos right?

[jayc]

4 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

I found some online that says fertilizer grade and for some I foind food grade , which will be the better bet?

I don't think there is much difference for your application. Food grade is used for make food that humans will be eating.

But in your case, it's for shrimp. So pick whichever one. 

 

4 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

Also will caridinas be okay if the gh and kh increases?

Caridinas prefer low KH. So avoid increasing KH.

 

4 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

I can just add the mixture till I reach the desired tds for neos right?

That's correct.

[Josh16622]

17 hours ago, jayc said:

I don't think there is much difference for your application. Food grade is used for make food that humans will be eating.

 

Okay thanks, if I'm planning to mix potassium with my tap water aswell I just have to follow your ratio right?

And lastly it's hard for me to find calcium sulphate dihydrate nor can I find ,Heptahydrate all I can find is between food grade or fertiliser. Will food grade or fertiliser dissolve more readily in water or is there no difference? And just to be clear besides being for human consumption there isn't any difference that a food grade ingredient and a fertiliser grade one  for shrimps right? I'm sorry if I have been asking alot. Thank you!?

Edited April 11, 2021 by Josh16622

[jayc]

You might be able to find calcium sulphate dihydrate as a fertiliser called Gypsum.

Or you might find calcium sulphate heptahydrate (or Hemihydrate) as a product called Plaster of Paris.

15 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

Will food grade or fertiliser dissolve more readily in water or is there no difference?

All else being equal, the food grade stuff is usually a very fine powder. So try to find something that is a fine powder, almost like flour.

Calcium sulphate also dissolves easier in cold water.

 

15 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

And just to be clear besides being for human consumption there isn't any difference that a food grade ingredient and a fertiliser grade one  for shrimps right?

Minor differences.

Calcium Sulphate is made up of a :

% of Calcium, 

% of Sulphur and 

% of filler.

It is this % of filler product that determines whether it is food grade or fertiliser grade. 

Since this filler does not impact what we consider useful in Calcium Sulphate, it makes no difference as far as we are concerned in this application/use case.

Edited April 11, 2021 by jayc

[Josh16622]

On 4/11/2021 at 5:22 PM, jayc said:

You might be able to find calcium sulphate dihydrate as a fertiliser called Gypsum.

Or you might find calcium sulphate heptahydrate (or Hemihydrate) as a product called Plaster of Paris.

All else being equal, the food grade stuff is usually a very fine powder. So try to find something that is a fine powder, almost like flour.

Calcium sulphate also dissolves easier in cold water.

 

Minor differences.

Calcium Sulphate is made up of a :

% of Calcium, 

% of Sulphur and 

% of filler.

It is this % of filler product that determines whether it is food grade or fertiliser grade. 

Since this filler does not impact what we consider useful in Calcium Sulphate, it makes no difference as far as we are concerned in this application/use case.

Okay thanks! I got the food grade and gypsum to see which dissolves more readily. For the iron sulphate, I found two that says ferrous and ferris, the seller told me that the ferrous was more water soluble. Would this be okay?

[jayc]

6 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

I found two that says ferrous and ferris, the seller told me that the ferrous was more water soluble. Would this be okay?

Yes that will be okay. 

Do you have many plants in your tank? The iron is for plants. If not, leave it out.

[Josh16622]

On 4/13/2021 at 7:09 AM, jayc said:

Yes that will be okay. 

Do you have many plants in your tank? The iron is for plants. If not, leave it out.

Okay, yeah I do have a couple heavily planted tanks. I just bought all the ingredients. Any tips for mixing the solution? Like mix the calcium sulphate in cold water, incase I make any mistake.

[jayc]

No other special tips. Just weigh the ingredients and mix it into a bottle with 500ml of RO water.

Shake the bottle vigorously. 

Don't worry if the mix is cloudy. It will clear when added to change water.

[Josh16622]

6 hours ago, jayc said:

No other special tips. Just weigh the ingredients and mix it into a bottle with 500ml of RO water.

Shake the bottle vigorously. 

Don't worry if the mix is cloudy. It will clear when added to change water.

Okay thanks Jay, I've got one problem tho. I'm gonna get a fan because my water temp is much more hotter than what a caridina sp needs, can I top up with my tap water? Because I read evaporation rates will be high

[sdlTBfanUK]

Usually you should use pure RO water (TDS 000) for topping up evaporation as otherwise there will be an increase in the TDS and other parameters as evaporation is pure water leaving everything else in the remaining tank water so it builds up!

As your wtap water is very good and low TDS you could probably get away with using it and then when you do water changes/maintenance try using purely tap water to top up, ie if you remove 1 gallon from the tank at TDS 150, and add 1 gallon at TDS 060 from the tank that would reduce the tank TDS overall dependant on the volume of water On changing 4 gallons in a 20 gallon the new TDS afterwards would be 132 for example). I do this with my tanks also to adjust the TDS each time. It is a little fiddly to get your head around to start with but soon becomes habitual!

If you want me to do you a spreadsheet just let me know, I will need to know, Litres/gallons (volume) of water in the tank, planned volume of regular water changes.

Simon

[jayc]

1 hour ago, Josh16622 said:

can I top up with my tap water?

What Simon said above. You have good tap water, but RO is better. Use your tap water if you have no RO water.

[Josh16622]

21 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Usually you should use pure RO water (TDS 000) for topping up evaporation as otherwise there will be an increase in the TDS and other parameters as evaporation is pure water leaving everything else in the remaining tank water so it builds up!

As your wtap water is very good and low TDS you could probably get away with using it and then when you do water changes/maintenance try using purely tap water to top up, ie if you remove 1 gallon from the tank at TDS 150, and add 1 gallon at TDS 060 from the tank that would reduce the tank TDS overall dependant on the volume of water On changing 4 gallons in a 20 gallon the new TDS afterwards would be 132 for example). I do this with my tanks also to adjust the TDS each time. It is a little fiddly to get your head around to start with but soon becomes habitual!

If you want me to do you a spreadsheet just let me know, I will need to know, Litres/gallons (volume) of water in the tank, planned volume of regular water changes.

Simon

Ah okay I think the spreadsheet should help me understand things, I kinda get the picture. My tank is a 5 gallon and looking to change about 10 percent of water at a time. So with the spreadsheet I can just do calculations and apply to my other tanks aswell right?

21 hours ago, jayc said:

What Simon said above. You have good tap water, but RO is better. Use your tap water if you have no RO water.

Okay thanks Jay, and also will your DIY mix and my tap water be a good combination for sulawesi shrimp? My ph is around 6.5 which isn't enough for sulawesi. 

[sdlTBfanUK]

TDS Calculator (1).xlsx

I hope you can open the spreadsheet as although it is quite simple to work out it is fiddly to do manually. Eventually you will get to know roughly enough that you probably will guess and not need it!

I have put roughly your figures in it but the green squares are the ones that need completing. You can use gallons or litres as long as you use the same for each of the red numbers. If your tank is a 5 gallon I have assumed you have 4.5 gallons of water? My 35L tank has 28L water.

Simon

[jayc]

2 hours ago, Josh16622 said:

also will your DIY mix and my tap water be a good combination for sulawesi shrimp?

That DIY mix formula is not for Sulawesi shrimp.

You will need to change the recipe for sulawesi. Calcium chloride instead of Calcium sulphate. But I cannot be certain of the amount. I have not tried making a mix for Sulawesi since I don't keep any. 

[Josh16622]

1 hour ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

TDS Calculator (1).xlsx

I hope you can open the spreadsheet as although it is quite simple to work out it is fiddly to do manually. Eventually you will get to know roughly enough that you probably will guess and not need it!

I have put roughly your figures in it but the green squares are the ones that need completing. You can use gallons or litres as long as you use the same for each of the red numbers. If your tank is a 5 gallon I have assumed you have 4.5 gallons of water? My 35L tank has 28L water.

Simon

Okay thanks alot Simon, I'll give this a try when I'm back home. Appreciate it a ton.

 

1 hour ago, jayc said:

That DIY mix formula is not for Sulawesi shrimp.

You will need to change the recipe for sulawesi. Calcium chloride instead of Calcium sulphate. But I cannot be certain of the amount. I have not tried making a mix for Sulawesi since I don't keep any. 

Oh man ? is there any way I can try to make it myself? I thought of getting sulawesi aswell.

[sdlTBfanUK]

Try not to get too carried away at this early stage as you don't know whether your tap water will even work with caridina yet, fingers crossed it does but there is alwayd a chance it won't? Maybe try and get that sorted out before embarking on the sulawesi as well!

Simon