Impossible to Find Shrimp Veterinarian

[Queerzzical]

Has anyone else found it neigh impossible to find a vet that will look at shrimp?

I've talked to nearly all the exotic vets in my area (Chicagoland), including a connection I had to a zoo vet, and even the vets that have experience with invertebrates have refused to see and attempt a diagnosis them due to not having experience with shrimps. I've been attempting to get a prescription-only medication, but there hasn't been any way to get a hold of it beyond online ordering, which I prefer to avoid if possible.

I've spent many frustrating hours on the phone that haven't led to anything, so I'm hoping anyone here may have any advice or have had similar experiences.

[sdlTBfanUK]

I doubt anyone has tried the Veterinarian route for shrimps as it would probably be too complex, time consuming and expensive! Probably you would be lucky if you could find one that would prescribe the medication you want but as you say that won't be easy either as they would want to see what you want it for.

If you want a specifc medication does that mean you know what the problem is, and where it came from?

If you post a photo and details on here there will likely be someone who can help diagnose it and may be able to advize what to do next!

There may be some details here,

https://skfaquatics.com/forum/forums/topic/5052-shrimp-diseases-and-diagnosis/

Simon 

[jayc]

Tell us what is wrong with your shrimp and give us as much details about your water parameters as possible.

[Queerzzical]

Apologies for the late reply, I had a lot of stuff that got in the way of basically everything.

Parameters:
20 gallon moderately planted
Filter: Fluval Aquaclear 50
No CO2, though I have the stuff for it.
12 Cherry shrimp
6 Otos
2 Assassin Snails

Temp: 76°
pH: ~8
Nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia: basically 0ppm
Chlorine: Absolute 0ppm
TDS: 295ppm
KH: 8°
GH: ~16-17°
Waiting until copper test kit comes in to check that, but I do run my water a few minutes before using it.
I do 25% water changes weekly.

Link to shrimp images because they are too large to upload. Don't worry about the girl with the white ring, she molted perfectly and was fine.

Having looked through the shrimp disease and diagnosis, I initially was thinking that they might have muscular necrosis, which is why I was looking into the medication. Taking another look at my parameters makes me second guess this. Might still be a disease, but I would be most grateful for any helpful advice/recommendations from those that know better. Thank you.

I can move this to specifically Shrimp Disease and Diagnosis if that is more appropriate.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Queerzzical
Small addition

[jayc]

Has the shrimp been dying consistently? Or are you just worried about the colouration?

Your water parameters are a bit on the hard side and can do with lowering of  ph, TDS, KH and GH.

But if the shrimp are not dying then the colour is not something to be worried about. Many cherry reds have that stripe. 

[Queerzzical]

Shrimp were doing fair for a while, but I have had a few die these last few weeks. The coloration is secondary, but would be nice to have a bit more homogenized. Good to know the stripe is normal, but many shrimp have more than just that as shown in the pictures.

Been trying to lower the pH (without chemical adjusters) for a long time, but that's always a losing battle. Should I consider RO, or are there other methods of improving conditions? Not sure how else I could change all those otherwise.

If it is a disease, should I explore options with medications the diseases forum lists as potential treatments?

[jayc]

3 hours ago, Queerzzical said:

but many shrimp have more than just that as shown in the pictures.

Yes, I notice the shrimp in the 1st and 2nd pictures have more than just a stripe. I haven't seen cherries with such a mottled colouration.

 

4 hours ago, Queerzzical said:

Don't worry about the girl with the white ring, she molted perfectly and was fine.

did this shrimp's colour revert back to normal after the moult?

[sdlTBfanUK]

I have had those red with stripe so don't worry aabout those, they are fine! Going by the pictures I don't think it is a disease but more likely just water parameters?

Those stats though are double the norm, or what you want to aim for. Unless the shrimp are dying in big numbers though, don't change it fast, but slowly adjust the water parameters. Neocaridina shrrimp are usually ok in tap water but I think yours is probably too hard. Also, do you suffer with evaporation as that will cause a build up as evaporation is pure water?

There are 3 alternative water supplies to consider,

1) Bottled water, though that needs to be as close to RO as you van get hold of!

2) RO water filtered water either from your own filter, or purchased at an aquarium shop!

3) RO water from a zerowater filter jug (readily available and cheap in USA, walmart, online etc www.zerowater.com). This produces water almost as RO. The filters may not last long with such hard water as yours, but you can only find that out by trial?  A filter does about 100L of my TDS 180 tap water.

If you start using RO water you will eventually need to add GH/KH+ as the RO water has zero of anything in it. You can start changing 10% water each week with just RO to start, and that will bring your parameters down gradually. You don't need to do more than 10% weekly  water changes anyway with your setup, shrimp don't have much of a bioload?

Simon

[Queerzzical]

10 hours ago, jayc said:

did this shrimp's colour revert back to normal after the moult?

I believe it did lighten up, but still had notable white coloration. All shrimp did start out red.

10 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Do you suffer with evaporation as that will cause a build up as evaporation is pure water?

If you start using RO water you will eventually need to add GH/KH+ as the RO water has zero of anything in it.

You don't need to do more than 10% weekly  water changes anyway with your setup, shrimp don't have much of a bioload?

I do have a fair amount of evaporation. I need to get a lid that doesn't get in the way of my filter, probably a custom cut piece of glass/acrylic.

Since my stats are about double, is a viable option to do half RO and half tap to give me the proper parameters? I might need to experiment with that before using it in my tank.

I was doing higher water changes to help with any disease, but if it's just the parameter then the filter will just do it's job.

I'm considering switching substrates from eco-complete to ADA to help with the pH, but that would mean housing my fish elsewhere for a couple weeks which I don't have the room for.

[jayc]

It probably doesn't hurt to start taking steps to reduce the parameters you have.

A fourth option is collecting rain water and remineralise it up to the ideal parameters your shrimp needs. 

 

[Crabby]

Other options of reducing hardness and pH would be IAL, peat moss (such as sphagnum or similar) or driftwood.

[Queerzzical]

54 minutes ago, Crabby said:

Other options of reducing hardness and pH would be IAL, peat moss (such as sphagnum or similar) or driftwood.

I do use IAL and have driftwood and cholla wood, but no peat moss. I'll look into it.

Thank you everyone for the advice.

[Crabby]

Possibly a better way to fix the problem, instead of continually battling the high pH and hardness, is to find the source of the problem and remove it. Usually (unless you just have hard tap water) it'll be the rocks or substrate.

[jayc]

6 hours ago, Queerzzical said:

I do use IAL and have driftwood and cholla wood, but no peat moss.

Gotta do something about that high KH first, in order for IAL and driftwood to be effective.

Even changing out 20% of your tank water with rain water collected by leaving out buckets will be a change for more favourable tank parameters. 

[sdlTBfanUK]

12 hours ago, Queerzzical said:

I do have a fair amount of evaporation. I need to get a lid that doesn't get in the way of my filter, probably a custom cut piece of glass/acrylic.

Since my stats are about double, is a viable option to do half RO and half tap to give me the proper parameters? I might need to experiment with that before using it in my tank.

You should top up with RO water when you get evaporation, but a lid should reduce the evaporation!

You can aim for the 50% RO/rain water and 50% tapwater mix down the line and that should work well enough. You need to transition the shrimps slowly though otherwise you will probably wipe them all out as they are very sensitive to water changes. I would do 10-20% water change each week using RO/rain water only until you get to the right parameters (will be more than a month) and then you can start mixing 50/50 water. And always top up with RO/Rain water only. RO water will also bring the PH down but you will need to check the Ph of the rain water, though I would expect that to be ok as well? Always add the new water into the tank slowly, usually a dripper setup is the best way!

As crabby points out, there may be someting else in the tank as well which is increasing the parameters, like rock etc?

I wouldn't bother changing the substrate at this point! You don't need the buffering for cherry shrimp as they prefer Ph7-7.5 anyway and with the new mixed water you should get to that easily enough. In fact new substrate with the (new) different water would probably make the Ph too low and better suited for caridina shrimps!  

Do the full set of Parameter tests on your tap water to make sure that that is part/main problem!

Simon