Jump to content

fish breeder feedback


abbytherookiehuman
 Share

Recommended Posts

hey everyone so i know this is a shrimp forum but im betting that most of the people on here have fish too 

im a school student and ive decided  to design a new breeder box that beats the flaws of other existing products for my major work

i was hoping you guys could just reply with what method or model of breeder box you use to save your fry, what kind of fish you use it with and any pros and cons of these methods

thanks in advance for any replies. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, abbytherookiehuman said:

i know this is a shrimp forum

We would like to move away from that image. Hence the forum name change to SKF Aquatics. We cover Shrimp, fish, and anything to do with the aquarium hobby.

Breeder boxes are used with shrimp too.

 

2 hours ago, abbytherookiehuman said:

what method or model of breeder box you use to save your fry, what kind of fish you use it with and any pros and cons of these methods

The Ziss breeder box is almost perfect. 

I say almost, because the internal hanging mechanism still uses suction cups, if you have a tank that has a lid.

If your tank has a lid you can only use the suctions cups. The other method supplied hangs on the side of the tank means you cannot close the tank with lids.

The problem is, suction cups fail after a while. And if it fails the breeder box will fall into the tank allowing whatever is in the box to escape.

If you can, figure out a better attachment mechanism for the box that still allows you to close the lid on the tank, that would be great.

All the other features of the Ziss is perfect for a breeder box and should be the bar for every other breeder box design.

 

The other limitation is, modularity. I'd like to be able to hook/lock another box to the side, expanding the capacity. Metacube breeder boxes was good in this sense, where you can connect additional boxes to expand sideways or even down. But Metacube is no longer available.

Edited by jayc
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

thank you so much for your reply,

i forgot to ask before, as my assignment will be focused on a model that also better protects the babies from the parents during and in the window after their birth, i was meaning to ask if your method also has a divider so that the fry can drop down safely away from mum.

i would like to ask that any more responses also include that information (baby divider; yes/no). sorry for the missing information and thanks again in advance for any further replies

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Ziss and Metacube breeder box I have does not come with a divider for the eggs to drop down away from the parents.

But, yes, that would have been a nice feature to have. The divider needs to be removable however.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use a few different breeder boxes, and while none of them are perfect, they seem to do the job for me. I don't have any idea what models or brands they are, besides one - the Aqua One Mini Float. I bought it for endlers and shrimp, and I doubt it would work for guppies, mollies or any other larger livebearers, since it is (as the name would suggest) pretty small. It's hard plastic, which I like (for usability), the suction cups kind-of suck, although it does have two compartments on either side that hold air, so it won't sink if the suction cups come off. It's a great size for my 5 gallon tank. My problem is that the gaps are too large for shrimplets. I think there should be some alternative option that has a very fine mesh (like in a shrimp net) that can be attached over the areas that have water-flow holes. It also comes with a removable divider for fry seperation. I do prefer breeder boxes with a divider option.
I also have 2 of those rather common large mesh ones, that pack really small and have a net that goes over the hollow-cube structure. One has 2 dividers (so you can subdivide it into 2, and have a baby-catcher underneath still) which I found very useful when I was breeding lines with 1-2 males and 2 females, as the females would drop their fry around the same time. So I think the metacube idea is a really good one. There are a couple reasons I prefer hard plastic (with a fine mesh attachment possibly) over mesh with plastic scaffolding (like this) - firstly, the plastic ones are easier to move when you remove the fry. I have on multiple occasions accidentally left a fry in the mesh one without realising. Luckily I noticed in time, and I haven't had any deaths from that. Secondly, there are slight gaps between the mesh and the scaffolding, and the fry have a tendency to get stuck in those gaps. If I don't notice, there's a fair chance I could lose some of those fry. I also have problems with the mesh ones getting algae on them. If the hard plastic gets algae, I can easily rub/scrape it off. The mesh just does not let go of algae though, and it can be a bit of an eyesore (in addition to how ugly the mesh ones already look). If I try to suck it off with a syphon (just cuz) the fry get sucked into the net and stuck. 
I hope that's helpful. I do realise it's a massive mess of text. To sum it up, the things that are important to me as a shrimp, endler and guppy breeder are the following:
Clear, hard plastic box
Divider option
Safe for baby shrimp
Has a possibility to use multiple beside eachother - possibly interlock
GOOD suction cups (like Eheim ones)
Smaller size
Works with and without a lid
No places for fry to get stuck.

Cheers, Crabby.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks crabby for all your feed back : ) 

i know about the subdivider options but have been stung by it; i thought it would keep fry separate so i spent a whole afternoon separating girls and boys into left and right only to come outside after dinner and find that they could get from one side to another and they were all mixed up again. x( 

thought that was worth telling you since you're trying to line breed. you may not be able to tell but the two different groups are almost definitely mixing in the fry saver. sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

that is a kink i would like to work out in my design though 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, I use the divider with the sole intention of hatching fry and making sure they can evade their parents. I have growout tanks that I use to seperate males and females.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Similar Content

    • Shrimp Mania
      By Shrimp Mania
      In this video I'm going to show you a cool method of keeping two different neocaridina shrimp in one tank without mixing them. I show you how I separate small colony of yellow cherry shrimp from blue dream shrimp by using small breeding box.
      https://youtu.be/-DrVirbmZT0
    • Rare Aqua
      By Rare Aqua
      The in depth guide to keeping as well as breeding Amarinus lacustris by Hervey Doerr-Rolley
       
      Overview
      The aim of this article is to educate and warn people of the mistakes I made and how I was successful with breeding and keeping this species. I published an article about this species several years ago so thought it was time for an updated guide for anyone wanting to keep and breed this species. All my knowledge about this species has been developed over the 4 years I've kept this species as well as the many scientific articles I've studied, I first kept this species when I was 15 and now 19, my colony is still going strongly. Currently studying a bachelor of Marine science. Firstly I'd like to point out this species does not have a larval cycle, it is a far too common misconception people have. I believe this thought is derived from their much larger cousin the Amarinus laevis and the Thai micro crab, Limnopilos naiyanetri. Amarinus lacustris have fully formed offspring, meaning their offspring are essentially miniature adults once hatched from their egg. Some points of interest about this species, there are 8 instars before their pubertal moult. Females up to two moults before their pubertal moult can copulate and store spermatozoon, once she reaches the pubertal moult she can then impregnate herself without the need of copulation. The stored spermatozoon can then be used up to 15 separate brood cycles (15 clutches of eggs). Adult females can carry up to *35 eggs (anecdotal) and take around 25-30 days at 15 degrees Celsius to hatch as fully formed offspring. 
       
      Water chemistry
      A. lacustris have a strong preference for hard water, I keep and breed mine in;
      pH: 8-8.2
      Ammonia:0ppm
      Nitrate:0ppm
      Nitrite:0ppm
      KH:125ppm 
      *25% water changes are done weekly*
       
      Breeding and Husbandry 
      Key points for their care;
      Gravel substrate - fine pea gravel is best.
      Air pump sponge filters are essential as this provides cleaner water as well as a feeding ground for the offspring as well as adults.
      Mulm and moss are essential.
      A good rule of thumb from my experience is 500ml of aquarium space per baby-sub adult, and then 1L per adult crab, this allows for less aggression from male to male behavior. It is up to you but the less stocking density the better due to the aggression of breeding from males, keep in mind this aggression is only towards other males however females that are being copulated with may sustain serious injuries if too many males are kept together. The best ratios are two males to 8 females. When a female sheds she releases hormones into the water column just like shrimp, if any of you are familiar with breeding shrimp you can note this by the erratic and fast speeds the males zoom around the aquarium searching for the female, this is the same case with A. lacustris except the swimming, rather they crawl quickly around the aquarium in search for the female to copulate with. Once the male finds the female he will grasp the female tightly underside to underside in a 'hug' embrace, he will then fertilize the female. This embrace can last minutes or hours depending on the male. Eggs will soon become visible and as described above hatch within 25-30 days*. This species is a cold water crustacean so you must remember that, breeding will cease if the temperature goes above 22 Celsius. Keep them in a mature mulm filled aquarium with leaf litter (I use oak leaves) with plenty of hiding spots and moss, a 8pH and 15 Celsius and before you know it you will have berried females.
       
      Feeding
       
      Surprisingly my A. lacustris do not eat commercial foods, I feed mine cultured white worms which are perfect as they grow to a max size of 3cm and survive underwater for several days. I also add snails to my aquarium as the crabs feed on their feces. Funnily enough baby crabs will eat the white worms too once they are 2 instars old, so it is not uncommon to see a 2mm baby crab hanging on to a 2cm long white worm! I feed my crabs every 3 days and small amounts of the worms to reduce water quality issues.
       
      Common questions I am asked 
       
      As I was the first person in Australia and the world to raise fully tank raised F2 offspring i have come across many commonly asked questions. "can I get these crabs in country x?" so far you can legally only get these crabs in their native geographical regions, however once these crabs are even more commonly bred their popularity over the Thai micro crab will be clearly abundant simply due to their ease of breeding which you know, therefore I wouldn't be surprised if these hit the international market once they're being large scale bred. "Do you have any for sale?" when I have crabs for sale I have a waiting list, If you want to ask questions or be on the waiting list email me: [email protected] "can these go with fish x?" if the fish is 4cm or less they are fine generally, my opinion is keep the species only or with shrimp which leads to the next question "are the shrimp safe" and yes they are, however they are naturally scavengers so if you have dead or sick shrimp they will eat them, if your shrimp are healthy they will not predate on them. "how long do they live for?" they live for around 2-3 years+. "why are all my crabs dying" this question is addressed below; 
       
      Major issue that needs to be addressed 
       
      Since my first sales of A. lacustris I suddenly saw a spike of ads for them in Australia, unfortunately I could tell the individuals for sale were all wild caught and at best had only lived in an aquarium for a couple weeks of their life. This then would result in people encouraging the decimation and local extinction of the species in our waterways due to peoples greed of wanting to make a quick buck off this amazing native species. The crabs that I breed and sell are all aquarium raised individuals ONLY, I have put time, money and effort into the crabs I breed to ensure I do not impact the wild populations and offer aquarium suited specimens for people wanting to keep them. I have had a plethora of emails from people asking me why crabs they had sourced outside of my individuals had suddenly died off, this is simply due to the fact these crabs have not been aquarium raised and selectively bred for years like mine have. I find it horrendous that people think it is okay to collect many wild individuals to then sell knowing full well they will die within around a 3 month period just for their sake to make some 'fast' money. So please before you buy from a seller of these crabs ask as many questions as you can to find out how many generations old your crabs are and how long they've been bred for etc. If they cannot supply a high amount of detail or simply quote my articles about them do not buy from that seller. Do not support poachers for your aquarium! This applies with all species, worldwide.
       
      Thank you for reading my article,
      again if you have any questions feel free to email me as I'm always happy to help out ethical keepers and potential breeders of this species.
       
      Author and credits: Hervey Doerr-Rolley

      View full article
    • Rare Aqua
      By Rare Aqua
      The in depth guide to keeping as well as breeding Amarinus lacustris by Hervey Doerr-Rolley
       
      Overview
      The aim of this article is to educate and warn people of the mistakes I made and how I was successful with breeding and keeping this species. I published an article about this species several years ago so thought it was time for an updated guide for anyone wanting to keep and breed this species. All my knowledge about this species has been developed over the 4 years I've kept this species as well as the many scientific articles I've studied, I first kept this species when I was 15 and now 19, my colony is still going strongly. Currently studying a bachelor of Marine science. Firstly I'd like to point out this species does not have a larval cycle, it is a far too common misconception people have. I believe this thought is derived from their much larger cousin the Amarinus laevis and the Thai micro crab, Limnopilos naiyanetri. Amarinus lacustris have fully formed offspring, meaning their offspring are essentially miniature adults once hatched from their egg. Some points of interest about this species, there are 8 instars before their pubertal moult. Females up to two moults before their pubertal moult can copulate and store spermatozoon, once she reaches the pubertal moult she can then impregnate herself without the need of copulation. The stored spermatozoon can then be used up to 15 separate brood cycles (15 clutches of eggs). Adult females can carry up to *35 eggs (anecdotal) and take around 25-30 days at 15 degrees Celsius to hatch as fully formed offspring. 
       
      Water chemistry
      A. lacustris have a strong preference for hard water, I keep and breed mine in;
      pH: 8-8.2
      Ammonia:0ppm
      Nitrate:0ppm
      Nitrite:0ppm
      KH:125ppm 
      *25% water changes are done weekly*
       
      Breeding and Husbandry 
      Key points for their care;
      Gravel substrate - fine pea gravel is best.
      Air pump sponge filters are essential as this provides cleaner water as well as a feeding ground for the offspring as well as adults.
      Mulm and moss are essential.
      A good rule of thumb from my experience is 500ml of aquarium space per baby-sub adult, and then 1L per adult crab, this allows for less aggression from male to male behavior. It is up to you but the less stocking density the better due to the aggression of breeding from males, keep in mind this aggression is only towards other males however females that are being copulated with may sustain serious injuries if too many males are kept together. The best ratios are two males to 8 females. When a female sheds she releases hormones into the water column just like shrimp, if any of you are familiar with breeding shrimp you can note this by the erratic and fast speeds the males zoom around the aquarium searching for the female, this is the same case with A. lacustris except the swimming, rather they crawl quickly around the aquarium in search for the female to copulate with. Once the male finds the female he will grasp the female tightly underside to underside in a 'hug' embrace, he will then fertilize the female. This embrace can last minutes or hours depending on the male. Eggs will soon become visible and as described above hatch within 25-30 days*. This species is a cold water crustacean so you must remember that, breeding will cease if the temperature goes above 22 Celsius. Keep them in a mature mulm filled aquarium with leaf litter (I use oak leaves) with plenty of hiding spots and moss, a 8pH and 15 Celsius and before you know it you will have berried females.
       
      Feeding
       
      Surprisingly my A. lacustris do not eat commercial foods, I feed mine cultured white worms which are perfect as they grow to a max size of 3cm and survive underwater for several days. I also add snails to my aquarium as the crabs feed on their feces. Funnily enough baby crabs will eat the white worms too once they are 2 instars old, so it is not uncommon to see a 2mm baby crab hanging on to a 2cm long white worm! I feed my crabs every 3 days and small amounts of the worms to reduce water quality issues.
       
      Common questions I am asked 
       
      As I was the first person in Australia and the world to raise fully tank raised F2 offspring i have come across many commonly asked questions. "can I get these crabs in country x?" so far you can legally only get these crabs in their native geographical regions, however once these crabs are even more commonly bred their popularity over the Thai micro crab will be clearly abundant simply due to their ease of breeding which you know, therefore I wouldn't be surprised if these hit the international market once they're being large scale bred. "Do you have any for sale?" when I have crabs for sale I have a waiting list, If you want to ask questions or be on the waiting list email me: [email protected] "can these go with fish x?" if the fish is 4cm or less they are fine generally, my opinion is keep the species only or with shrimp which leads to the next question "are the shrimp safe" and yes they are, however they are naturally scavengers so if you have dead or sick shrimp they will eat them, if your shrimp are healthy they will not predate on them. "how long do they live for?" they live for around 2-3 years+. "why are all my crabs dying" this question is addressed below; 
       
      Major issue that needs to be addressed 
       
      Since my first sales of A. lacustris I suddenly saw a spike of ads for them in Australia, unfortunately I could tell the individuals for sale were all wild caught and at best had only lived in an aquarium for a couple weeks of their life. This then would result in people encouraging the decimation and local extinction of the species in our waterways due to peoples greed of wanting to make a quick buck off this amazing native species. The crabs that I breed and sell are all aquarium raised individuals ONLY, I have put time, money and effort into the crabs I breed to ensure I do not impact the wild populations and offer aquarium suited specimens for people wanting to keep them. I have had a plethora of emails from people asking me why crabs they had sourced outside of my individuals had suddenly died off, this is simply due to the fact these crabs have not been aquarium raised and selectively bred for years like mine have. I find it horrendous that people think it is okay to collect many wild individuals to then sell knowing full well they will die within around a 3 month period just for their sake to make some 'fast' money. So please before you buy from a seller of these crabs ask as many questions as you can to find out how many generations old your crabs are and how long they've been bred for etc. If they cannot supply a high amount of detail or simply quote my articles about them do not buy from that seller. Do not support poachers for your aquarium! This applies with all species, worldwide.
       
      Thank you for reading my article,
      again if you have any questions feel free to email me as I'm always happy to help out ethical keepers and potential breeders of this species.
       
      Author and credits: Hervey Doerr-Rolley
    • blacksails
      By blacksails
      Hey guys new to the wonderful world of shrimp keeping, my tank has been cycled for about 3 months now and start of December I got my first shrimpey's! I choose blue jelly's as they are beautiful 🙂 a month in and I have about 3 sets of babys swimming around!! They are all super clear right now getting slightly more blue each day, but there's an odd guy in the bunch..one of the biggest infact is completely see through orange in colour!! No clear no blue but orange..he's got such character and is often doing zoomies around my tank 🙂 but yeh couldn't seem to find any info out there so thought I could consult the community thank you for any opinions on this lovely little oddity
      Struggling to get pic uploaded because of size issues will try update with pics tomorrow
       
    • Taste
      By Taste
      Curious how much i should let them age if its even a concern before i sell some of my babies.
  • Join Our Community!

    Register today, ask questions and share your shrimp and fish tank experiences with us!

  • Must Read SKF Articles

  • Posts

    • jayc
      Great idea! Please document your journey here. I have no experience with marine shrimps, so cannot help you. But what you have listed above seems like a sound plan to get started.   
    • sdlTBfanUK
      That sounds like a fun project and look forward to hearing how it goes!  Hopefully someone will have some useful advice/tips etc? 
    • Crabby
      I have an idea. And considering I’m terrible at being concise, I’m sure it’s gonna take me a while to explain it.   Essentially, I want to do a nano marine rockpool tank, with just crustaceans and molluscs (and perhaps a seastar or two). And I really don’t know how plausible it is, but I’m pretty intent on finding out. I don’t know if anyone here has any experience with marine shrimp, but I figured I may as well see if any of the Aussies here are familiar with the shrimp I want to keep. So this species of shrimp is actually the species that got me into the hobby! I found them on a camping trip, and they were just so active and engaging, and I just fell in love. Then I went home, did a bunch of research, and got an aquarium. They’re part of the reason why I’m so interested in shrimp. Now I’m on holidays again (in a different place in Vic) and they’re everywhere in the tide pools. Millions. The species is ‘palaemon serenus’, the red-handed shrimp, and they grow to about 6cm for big females (which I discovered last night) and I think 3-4 for males. Just from observation. They live primarily in colonies of 10-30 under rocks during the day, venturing out when they feel safe, and going everywhere once it gets dark. They’re omnivorous, eating pretty much everything they can get their little claws on (including my fingers and toes). They look rather like freshwater macrobrachium, to be honest. I’ve had a look and it’s legal to collect from this location. There aren’t limits on anything I want to collect. So, I’m thinking I’d do a 20 litre tank for the meantime (until I can get some awesome 30ish litre low-boy tank). I’ve got one at home that could be set up as soon as I’m back. If I take home a big rock and sand, then I should have beneficial bacteria sorted, as well as a food source. The rock would have plants and a bit of algae and all the other good stuff you find on the rocks they like. Other than using salt for water changes, I’d run the tank like a freshwater tank - sponge filter for filtration, freshwater light, no heater, fortnightly or monthly water changes. I’d love to add a couple little fish if I can catch them, but I have no idea how to identify whether they’ll grow or not. Same deal with the majority of crabs (although I have ID’d a few species that would work). And unfortunately no nudibranch either… although I found the CUTEST little one last night. They’re apparently super specialist in terms of diet, and I don’t have the time to observe one for hours to see what it eats, ID it, work out how to cultivate it, and all that. So, that’s the plan. I would love any advice, recommendations, or criticisms you have. I understand there’s a good chance this could be too ambitious, and the well-being of the animals is number 1 priority, so if it sounds like it’s a bad idea then I’ll just scrap it. But I’m pretty keen on finding out a way to make this work.
    • sdlTBfanUK
      I have had fungus each time I set up a new tank, but it has always just disappered on its own after a month or two, and has been varied in appearance each time!
    • Dirk De Bakker
      Had a go searching / feeling throught the substrate for the tabs but no luck.  They might have dissolved or become soggy so I can't  feel them.  I have a bucket sample of substrate brewing at the moment for a 24 hour test and its already steadily rising the TDS.   Looks like a just wait and see...... Thanks for all the help as ususal it is appreciated.  Dirk       
×
×
  • Create New...