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Jerme

Bacterial infection

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Jerme

Hi.


Based on my diagnostics I’m facing internal bacterial infections with my shrimps.
I currently run 10+ setups and Im afraid that before I have stopped this infection I might have none left. Time will tell how many of them are already infected.
The infection has so far wiped two of my Taiwan bee tanks and today I found first loss in CBS tank.

Im disinfecting everything that I use and even do now water changes without hoses. I think the hoses have been the reason that the infection has spread from the first tank.

The symptoms are not visible on the outside before the shrimp die. They just tend to stand and do nothing. Once they die the color changes and when inside is visible I can clearly see that the organs have turned orange. Attached photo black king kong white line and CBS.

I have tried so far dosing H2O2 and oregano oil (carvacrol 80%). I dosed the oregano oil to food but only few or none would eat anymore in tanks where infection had spread.

I have ordered baytril and oxytetracycline powder but it will take some time.

Now I'm maybe asking what I could do to make the best possible chance for the remaining shrimp to survive in tanks where there are no casualties yeat but have a risk that they are contaminated?

I do have some fish medication but they wont have any of the ingredients mentioned in the Shrimp Diseases and Diagnosis post.
https://skfaquatics.com/forum/forums/topic/5052-shrimp-diseases-and-diagnosis/
 

20200827_070952_640x480.jpg

20200828_080522(1)_640x480.jpg

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sdlTBfanUK

Welcome to the forum!

I am sorry to hear about your problem. I don't think I can add anything more than is in the thread you have linked.

Have you checked the water isn't getting too warm as the photos look remarkeably like mine when my heater malfunctioned,

DSC00527.thumb.jpg.b504f5935592bfe5fce89b39dd52784b.jpg

I'm sure others will be able to offer some helpful advice.

Simon

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Jerme

Hi and thank you for the reply.

I do not use heaters. I heat or cool the carage to 22 degrees. Temp in the tanks are between 21,5 to 23 depending if they are positioned low or high.

I was in contact with one of the fish disease experts here in Finland and I desided to try JBL furanol plus.

https://www.jbl.de/en/products/detail/5580/jbl-furanol-plus-250

I know there is a chance that the medication could harm the shrimp but as I have seen this infection is deadly I had to try it in the CBS tank that had its first victim today.

If there are any survivors after 3-4 days I know it has made a difference.

 

 

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sdlTBfanUK

I hope it works out and please keep us updated. I like JBL products myself!

Simon

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arcticwolf

I noticed it shows as being safe for inverts, so i also wish you luck ... and perhaps we now know a new infection treatment

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beanbag

maracyn 2

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jayc

Hi @Jerme,

please list a your water parameters in full. 

Make sure you only use one medication at a time in the tank.

I would also continue dosing H2O2 at each water change weekly.

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Jerme

I use RODI water. Tds=0.

Collect to a 220 liter container. Container has an  airpump to keep the water moving and aerated.
Take some water to a 50 liter container and remineralize with salty shrimp bee gh+ or salty shrimp gh/kh+ depending if I do water change for caridina or neocaridina. 
 
Values for water change:
Caridina tds 120ppm
Neocaridina tds 180ppm
Water temp around 22

I do weekly 25% water changes.
 
I measured values for ph, no2, no3, nh4 in the three  taiwan bee problem tanks. Calibrated ph meter and for the rest jbl liquid test kit.
 
PH in caridina tanks between 5,9 and 6,6 depending on the age and active soil used. (Akadama, red bee, tropica soil, shrimp king).
PH in neocaridina 7,7-7,9. 


NO2 and NH4 in all measured cases 0.
NO3 between 0 and 1. I use small amount of ferts mixed from dry salts that is the reason NO3 might be 1.


I use dry fert mixes for my planted tanks and I have created very mild versions for shrimp tanks. I can provide details if needed.


One thing I forgot to mention is that I have had odd deads in orange sakura tank for more than a month. In the beginning I lost 1-2 a day. Now I have been able to improve the situation to maybe one casualty every second day. They breed and has shrimp from all ages. When they die they dont have the same symptoms as the taiwan bees. Actually they have nothing visible.
The reason I mention this is that the tank had in the beginning fish that have been in the same tank with wild fish.


I suspect that maybe the fish carried some bacteria that transferred to orange sakura and from there further. Maybe Neos are more tolerant to the bacteria than taiwan bees..

Im soon gonna go to garage and see how situation has evolved.

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jayc

You seem to have all the right water parameters.

Where are you located?

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Jerme

Located in Finland.

Good news is that there are no visible deaths today in CBS. Some are actually moving quite active. Should I feed them during the medication?

Bad news is that I found first victim in the galaxy tank, arghh! Attached picture.

I dosed them JBL furanol plus. I do really hope this med helps.

20200828_172828(1)(1).thumb.jpg.42b744a88bfbaad665f42583669df7a7.jpg

 

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jayc
33 minutes ago, Jerme said:

Should I feed them during the medication?

Yes, feed them a little. 

Furanol is for internal and external bacterial infections.

Dilute the furanol in some tank water and drip it onto the food pellets. Then feed it to the shrimp.  

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Jerme

Second day and no casualties. None in the CBS or galaxy tank. 

I'm carefully optimistic that this cure might actually work. 

I keep you updated how things go.

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jayc
6 minutes ago, Jerme said:

I keep you updated how things go.

Can you detail what steps you are taking for future reference, and for anyone watching that might have the same issues?

Thanks.

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Jerme

Treatment for 112 liter tank. Actual water volume 100 liters.

Dosage is one tablet of JBL Furanol plus for 25 liters of water. In severe cases dosing can be doubled.
Sera bactopur direct has the same nifurpirinol active substance if you cannot get Furanol. 

I got a very clear instruction that you should never dose less than instructed because you can just create resistent bacterial strains.

Before the medication I did a 25% water change. According to instructions you can do up to 50%.

In my case I took some RO water to a one liter jug and put four tablets to dissolve. They dissolve very quickly. 
Then I pour the mixture evenly across the surface. You can also pour it where you have best waterflow.

Now I wait for five days for the treatment to take effect. During this period only little feeding. I gave some food on day two that was dipped in dilluted furanol.

From here on is how I plan to continue. I will update after treatment if there was any changes.

On the sixt day a 50% water change. If there still would be symptoms I do a new treatment on the sevent day.

During the water change on the sixt day I will clean filters to get rid most of the med residues. If you have activated carbon this can be used. 

The treatment will also kill beneficial bacteria so it would be good to dose some nitrification bacteria. Im going to dose Vin's Storm nitrification bacteria just because I have it. Carefull with feeding for next weeks.

Edited by Jerme
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sdlTBfanUK

I hope it all works out well for you and look forward to hearing how it turns out. Thanks for taking the time to let us know what you are doing with the treatment!

Simon

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Jerme

Quick update.

Treatment over in two tanks and there were no further casualties. Well, I haven't been able to count all shrimplets since there are so many hiding places that there is possibility that all have not survived but Im more than happy with this treatment. At some point I already had a feeling that I'm going to loose everything I have worked so hard for.

I also cleaned sponge filters from one tank and canister filter from the other. I did not have any activated carbon currently to use.

Tomorrow I will clean the last treated tank and hope the infection does not return.

 

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sdlTBfanUK

Great news, I hope you have sorted out your problem for good!

It is very difficult with these medications as they may not be available in other countries etc?

Simon

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Jerme

I think the case often is that you dont read and learn about diseases before you have to deal with them. There will be a lot of casualties before you can figure out what is wrong (this forum really helped me out with that part) and then get your hands on some medication.

 

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sdlTBfanUK

Hope it is still going well with the treatment and no more deaths?

Simon

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Jerme

Not a single death after I started the treatment. It prevented the infection to spread and also cured the infected. 

I also decided to treat the neocaridina tank that had occacional deaths even they did not have similar visible symptoms when they died.

I did not want to take chances that it would spread again.

Now I start to feel that I'm back on the track and can again enjoy this hobby.

I have disinfected and dried the tanks that had total population wipeout and started a new cycle. I will wait at least a month before adding any shrimp. This will give me time to think what shrimp I will get in them.

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Jay_Walker

Congrats on your success! I'm facing a similar issue here in the U.S. in my CRS tank that was flourishing up until a couple weeks ago. I have since been seeing 2-5 deaths per day with no visible signs of outer shell rot or parasites. The shrimp may have a bit of a pinkish hue to them after death, but most of the time it is tough to tell through the opaque carapace. The deaths do not discriminate by age as I have young all the way up to old passing away on me right now. I have done multiple water changes but it has not seemed to stem the tide of die-offs. My water parameters have remained consistent: pH-6.5, GH-7, KH-0, Temp-72 F, Ammonia-0, Nitrate-0-5, TDS-150. I am at the point where I think the most likely cause is a bacterial infection. Is there a medicine that people have used successfully in the states for this? I have heard some positive results from oxytetracycline. I'm not even sure I could get JBL Furanol here. Thanks for any advice.

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beanbag

Maracyn 2

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Jerme

You can try to find some fish medication for bacterial infections with Nifurpirinol.

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