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Hole in carapace?!


Glenism
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Hi All,

I require assistance from your expertise. I am a relatively new shrimp keeper, recently I have had a massive die-off. I am keeping my shrimp tank at around 23 degrees celcius, 0 nitrites and nitrates. GH is around about 90. PH is around about 5.5. I had treated the water with seachem prime prior to adding the shrimps about 3 weeks ago. I noticed that one of my shrimps had a huge brown hole in its carapace (as attached) before it died. Could anyone please help me attempt to diagnose why they are all dying? Thank you so much, any comment is appreciated.116432492_316821882699969_8817349105835109649_n.thumb.jpg.9640285c2aab354c4bb611761dabf470.jpg

Edited by Glenism
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Sorry to hear you are having a problem, but wecome to the forum and shrimp keeping.

From the PH and GH it appears your parameters are more suited  to caridina shrimp than neocaridina? Did you acclimate them over many hours with a dripper? Did you do a cycle with the tank, that low PH may have caused a normal cycle not to happen? How long was the tank tunning before the shrimps were added? Are you using RO water and remineralising? Do you know what the KH of the water is?

Usually neocaridina are quite adaptable to a wider range of parameters but a PH of 5.5 is probaby too low, as is GH 90 (thats almost 5 I believe) which should be 6-8 range.

Of coarse I am going by the picture so ASSUME the shrimp are cherry (neocaridina)?

Simon

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?

OMG, that's the biggest hole I have ever seen on a shrimp.

 

What shrimp was it? Cherry red?

Did you other shrimps also have brown spots?

And did it have other brown spots in other locations on it's carapace (shell)?

 

On first diagnosis based on the one photo above, it is most likely Chitinolytic bacterial disease. 

And if you have Cherry shrimp in a tank with low 5.5pH, the shrimp might have weak immunity due to keeping it in a pH range outside it's comfort zone. Cherry shrimps do better in 6.8 - 7.0 pH.

What type of water do you use? RO? Tap?

If you use RO, do you remineralise it with Calcium/Magnesium?

I see you have a bare bottom tank, so it's not planted substrate that is pulling the pH down. 

Are there any more shrimps in the tank?

Sorry for the questions, but we need to get an idea of your situation in order to give you any advice.

5 minutes ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Simon

LOL, we post very similar questions within seconds of each other.

Edited by jayc
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Woahhhhhhh that's a massive hole! I don't know much about shrimp diseases, only that your pH is too low, GH possibly also. Try using some crushed coral or salty shrimp GH/KH+ to increase the alkalinity and hardness in your tank water.

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It looks like this shrimp is on a totally wrong water parameter.

If it is a Neo Caridina you should have a PH of 7 and a GH of 4 till 6 and a KH of 2 till 4.

Theres no need for a buffering substrate for the Neons

 

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Hi All,

Thank you for your responses, it is indeed a RCS, and I use tap water. The tank had been running for about two weeks but I have no lifestock in it, only some drift wood, java moss and moss balls. Are fish required to properly cycle the tank? Another shrimp had a brown blister in a similar spot to the one in the photo. There are now no more shrimps left in the tank. I am slightly weary of restocking it knowing that the conditions are far from ideal. Do you recommend I use a specific type of substrate to raise the PH? Should I empty the tank and start afresh? What are your thoughts?

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It may be just as well you have no shrimp left, as you can PREP properly this time. I assume you will be getting Cherry (neocaridina) shrimp again next time?

I can't quite make out what your substrate is from the pictures so I don't know whether that may be reducing your PH or not. Can you test your tap water for PH (and TDS if possible)?

Useualy cherry shrimp are fairly easy to keep and most people use an  inert substrate, though it is possible to keep them with an active substrate if you want to keep a lot of plants etc! As you ony have moss balls an inert substrate should work well. Do you have a TDS pen?

You will be aiming for PH of about 7, or slightly over ideally! This should help also with the cycle. I have had tanks of PH5.5 before but I have never seen a cycle in them and at that low PH anyway you get ammonium (not ammonia) which isn't harmful to any inhabitants in the way ammonia is. Of course that means you have you keep the PH stable so it doesn't flip betweren the 2 ammonia/ammonium as that would cause problems?

Lets take it slow as you don't have any occupants now to harm or worry about. What substrate have you got and can you test your tap water for PH and TDS (if you can test KH and GH as well, all the better). Tap water is usually good enough to keep cherry shrimp in unless its parameters are way off? We can take it from there, one step at a time!

Simon

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43 minutes ago, Glenism said:

Hi All,

Thank you for your responses, it is indeed a RCS, and I use tap water. The tank had been running for about two weeks but I have no lifestock in it, only some drift wood, java moss and moss balls. Are fish required to properly cycle the tank? Another shrimp had a brown blister in a similar spot to the one in the photo. There are now no more shrimps left in the tank. I am slightly weary of restocking it knowing that the conditions are far from ideal. Do you recommend I use a specific type of substrate to raise the PH? Should I empty the tank and start afresh? What are your thoughts?

Shrimp are more sensitive then fish!!!

2 week cycle is the problem, a shrimp tanks needs to be cycled for a minimum of 8 weeks.
Please contact the breeder of the Shrimp and ask for the right water parameters.

Please do a background check before you start with shrimp.

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As above. Simon and dhm covered it. Increase pH with crushed coral is the only thing I can think of to add.

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    • jayc
      @fred-koi, great photos. But sorry to hear you have issues with your shrimp. What shrimp is this?  It's showing signs of a bacterial infection. Are these brownish spots circled in red normally there?   How long have you had these shrimp? Bought recently? What is your water parameters like? Temperature too, please. Bacteria do better in warmer water, so make sure your tank is cooled.   Separate any shrimp that are showing signs like this shrimp - inflamed mandibles, and brown spots. If you are brave enough to want to further treat these shrimp, have a look at the treatments for "Rust Disease" in the Disease and Diagnosis thread. No guarantee we will save this shrimp, but you can give it a go.   
    • fred-koi
      Hello, I have been experiencing a mortality problem for several months. I realize that there is a problem on the mandibles the shrimp is weak eats little then the shrimp dies. Do you have an idea ? THANK YOU
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    • sdlTBfanUK
      This is 'INSANE' and what happens when you get carried away in this hobby! PLEASE DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME WITHOUT CONSULTING YOUR  PSYCHIATRIST FIRST! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKH1ABcN6-g I would not want his electricity or water bills, let alone all the cost of the equipment.  
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Putting the crystal shrimp in with neocaridina (cherr) means the setup will benefit one type more than the other and it looks like the tank is better suited to neocaridina. Neocaridina are more robust anyway, caridina are a lot more sensitive and therefore harder to keep. The parameters quoted are definitely off for caridina and better suited to the neocariidina! I'm sure that that is the reason for the deaths. You shouldn't need a heater if the house sits arount 74F (and it is unlikely to get so cold that it would kill your shrimp, especially with the other heat sources in the room) and the crystals would be ok at that sort of temperature, though the 80F is getting a bit warm for them, whereas neocaridina would be less affected by that higher temperature. Of course you also need to bear in mind how hot it will get during a really hot spell as even if they are doing well normally, if you even get a few days of over 80+ (in the aquarium though, not necessarily room temperature) that could wipe them out. You could try tiger shrimps as they are almost as tough and robust as cherry shrimps and require similar water parameters, and give a bit of variety? I'm not sure that I would try the caridina in your position due to the difficulty of keeping them and the extra costs involved, when it probably won't work?  
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