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Brando

New shrimpkeeper (parameters check)

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Brando

Hi group,

i am a new shrimp keeper and have had 2 Bloody Mary shrimp for 2 days now. 
 

I used Fluval Cycle(bio booster) for the first 3 days because that’s what is set to do on the bottle. This was used before I got the shrimp.

my Temperature is 82, ph is 7.6, ammonia is 0-.25ppm , nitrite 0, nitrate 10-20ppm. 
Are these levels fine? I am new to hobby! 
 

my shrimp randomly swim up to the top and along the glass then dive down to rest/eat. Is this a bad sign they are stressed?

 

please leave any tips or input!

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jayc
6 minutes ago, Brando said:

I used Fluval Cycle(bio booster) for the first 3 days because that’s what is set to do on the bottle.

Unfortunately, this doesn't mean the tank is cycled and ready for livestock yet. "Cycled" meaning that it has the beneficial bacteria in it to process the ammonia waste created by livestock. A tank needs to be setup and run for many more days before it can be considered cycled and ready for livestock. I would suggest continue using the Fluval cycle every 2 days at half dose until you use up the bottle. And don't forget about your weekly 10% water changes with fresh dechlorinated water remineralised to the proper parameters for your cherry shrimp.

Shrimps are not as hardy as fish, they need to specific water parameter range to do well in. 

Cherry Shrimps parameters are approximately:

Ammonia, Nitrite - 0ppm

Nitrates - 0-20ppm 

GH - 3-4

KH 0-1

Temps 22-24C

pH 6.5 - 7.0

TDS 120-180

 

11 minutes ago, Brando said:

my Temperature is 82, ph is 7.6, ammonia is 0-.25ppm

The fact that we see a possible 0.25ppm of ammonia here, really leads me to believe the tanks isn't cycled properly yet. As above, keep using the Fluval cycle until the bottle is used up. We are doing this with the hopes of keeping the shrimp alive until the tank is REALLY cycled.

Temps of 82F or 27C is getting a bit too warm for shrimps. Where are you located? And do you have an open top tank or a closed tank? Add a picture of your tank. That might help us get a perspective of what we are dealing with.

pH is also a bit high, and it looks like you are using tap water. Tap water normally has a high pH due to the stuff that is added into it by the water providers.

Overall, water parameters are all a bit too high along with a possible un-cycled tank. We will need to start work on reducing all of these. 

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Brando
34 minutes ago, jayc said:

Unfortunately, this doesn't mean the tank is cycled and ready for livestock yet. "Cycled" meaning that it has the beneficial bacteria in it to process the ammonia waste created by livestock. A tank needs to be setup and run for many more days before it can be considered cycled and ready for livestock. I would suggest continue using the Fluval cycle every 2 days at half dose until you use up the bottle. And don't forget about your weekly 10% water changes with fresh dechlorinated water remineralised to the proper parameters for your cherry shrimp.

Shrimps are not as hardy as fish, they need to specific water parameter range to do well in. 

Cherry Shrimps parameters are approximately:

Ammonia, Nitrite - 0ppm

Nitrates - 0-20ppm 

GH - 3-4

KH 0-1

Temps 22-24C

pH 6.5 - 7.0

TDS 120-180

 

The fact that we see a possible 0.25ppm of ammonia here, really leads me to believe the tanks isn't cycled properly yet. As above, keep using the Fluval cycle until the bottle is used up. We are doing this with the hopes of keeping the shrimp alive until the tank is REALLY cycled.

Temps of 82F or 27C is getting a bit too warm for shrimps. Where are you located? And do you have an open top tank or a closed tank? Add a picture of your tank. That might help us get a perspective of what we are dealing with.

pH is also a bit high, and it looks like you are using tap water. Tap water normally has a high pH due to the stuff that is added into it by the water providers.

Overall, water parameters are all a bit too high along with a possible un-cycled tank. We will need to start work on reducing all of these. 

Hi thank you for the response!

I am in Maryland and have the heat on during winter. Also, my tank is open. I have 3 java ferns, and used the fluval shrimp/plant substrate. I added a few small almond leaves today. I used tap water but used some water conditioner to dechlorinate it. When I add in my fluval cycle do I need to remove the shrimp? also, when i do the 10% water change should I mix the water conditioner in with the tap water then add it to the tank? Should I use the API freshwater test kit frequently to check parameters. 

 

Once again thank you for all the help. I enjoy having these shrimp and do not want to screw this up any further.

 

Brandon

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Crabby
4 hours ago, Brando said:

When I add in my fluval cycle do I need to remove the shrimp?

No you shouldn’t, this is what is naturally good for the tank, not a chemical.

5 hours ago, Brando said:

also, when i do the 10% water change should I mix the water conditioner in with the tap water then add it to the tank?

Yes, mix beforehand then add.

5 hours ago, Brando said:

Should I use the API freshwater test kit frequently to check parameters. 

Do this weekly if possible. And if you can, purchase the api GH/KH test kit, and/or a tds pen. 
 

Sorry I didn’t see that you had posted the same message on two different posts, jayc covered mostly the same stuff as I did. Except better of course 😉

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jayc

And Crabby covered all your additional questions here. 

Great tag team!👍

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sdlTBfanUK

I may have missed something but aren't the parameters JayC quoted for Bee shrimp, but these are cherry shrimp???

Hopefully with only 2 shrimps they will survive the cycle as 2 won't make a lot of ammonia!

You should try and cool the tank a bit as JayC states, you are pretty close to the limit. With Cherry shrimp you can use dechlorinated tap water, I do.

The IDEAL parameters for cherry shrimp are,

PH 6.5 - 7.5

TDS 150 - 250

GH 6 - 8

KH 2 - 4

Don't get too fixated if one isn't exactly in this range (ie your PH should be fine, same as mine) or where you want it, as cherry shrimp are fairly adaptable, but if you get measurements we can check those for you and let you know whether any action is required? Mine live with nitrates of 25-50 for instance, and have done for years - I am not saying they should, just that they can live outside perfect parameters.

Again, if you are using tap water it is unlikely ALL the parameters are good but the thing to do is not try and get EVERY one right, especially with tap water, and if you do want to change something do it VERY slowly! Tap water is also unreliable, every time I test mine it is different? The only way around this is to use RO water and shrimp mineraliser, but I have kept mine in tap water for 5+ years ith never a problem so unless the tap water is way off I would carry on with the tap water. If you let us know the parameters we can check if it is likely to work longer term?

Welcome to shrimp keeping and this forum!

Simon 

Edited by sdlTBfanUK
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Brando
11 hours ago, jayc said:

Unfortunately, this doesn't mean the tank is cycled and ready for livestock yet. "Cycled" meaning that it has the beneficial bacteria in it to process the ammonia waste created by livestock. A tank needs to be setup and run for many more days before it can be considered cycled and ready for livestock. I would suggest continue using the Fluval cycle every 2 days at half dose until you use up the bottle. And don't forget about your weekly 10% water changes with fresh dechlorinated water remineralised to the proper parameters for your cherry shrimp.

Shrimps are not as hardy as fish, they need to specific water parameter range to do well in. 

Cherry Shrimps parameters are approximately:

Ammonia, Nitrite - 0ppm

Nitrates - 0-20ppm 

GH - 3-4

KH 0-1

Temps 22-24C

pH 6.5 - 7.0

TDS 120-180

 

The fact that we see a possible 0.25ppm of ammonia here, really leads me to believe the tanks isn't cycled properly yet. As above, keep using the Fluval cycle until the bottle is used up. We are doing this with the hopes of keeping the shrimp alive until the tank is REALLY cycled.

Temps of 82F or 27C is getting a bit too warm for shrimps. Where are you located? And do you have an open top tank or a closed tank? Add a picture of your tank. That might help us get a perspective of what we are dealing with.

pH is also a bit high, and it looks like you are using tap water. Tap water normally has a high pH due to the stuff that is added into it by the water providers.

Overall, water parameters are all a bit too high along with a possible un-cycled tank. We will need to start work on reducing all of these. 

Ok I will continue to add fluval cycle every other day starting today. I have a piece of driftwood I could add which will lower ph too. Should I only water change once a week?

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Crabby
7 minutes ago, Brando said:

I have a piece of driftwood I could add which will lower ph too.

Yes add this. Just give it a short soak in a bathtub or something beforehand, depending on the size of the piece.

8 minutes ago, Brando said:

Should I only water change once a week?

With shrimp every fortnight is usually better. During the cycle (first month) you can do weekly 10% changes though.

And Simon gave some good advice about parameters. Only thing is 7.6 is the highest on your kit yeah? If so (and of course I could be wrong, let me know if you have tested high range pH) then it could be higher than 7.6 in actuality. 

 

Can we get some pics of the current setup?

Cheers,

Crabby

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sdlTBfanUK

Crabby brings to mind something regarding the tests, whether strips or drops. These go in steps so it is actually very unlikely they are giving a precise figure, ie if a test for PH shows 7 and then 7.5, technically the test showing 7 could be anywhere from 7-7.4 if that makes sense, and depending on the accuracy of the tests anyway. The same with all tests drip or strip. 

As for maintenance, the main thing is to try and add the new water slowly, usually a dripper of some kind is best. I do 10% a week because it suits me to clean the sponges and filter/lug less water to/fro etc. I would do 10% a week or 20% every two weeks, whichever suits you/your schedule best once up and running. Shrimp aren't very messy so don't require a great deal!

If you get a lot of evaporation as you have an open top then your TDS/GH etc will keep going (building) up with time if you only use tap water all the time, so that maybe something to consider, either top up between maintenance with RO (or similar) water or you may want to get a cover, depends how much evaporates between maintenance?

I would dechlorinate the water if you are going to soak the driftwood separately from the tank! 

Simon 

 

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Brando

I have tested high Ph it is 7.6. I do not have a FH/kh testing kit either. Adding the wood would lower the ph a little right? Also, are the parameters I mentioned in my original post safe enough right now. Obviously I want to try and get them a little better!

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Brando

I have tested high Ph it is 7.6. I do not have a FH/kh testing kit either. Adding the wood would lower the ph a little right? Also, are the parameters I mentioned in my original post safe enough right now. Obviously I want to try and get them a little better!

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Crabby
10 minutes ago, Brando said:

I have tested high Ph it is 7.6

Okay, great.

10 minutes ago, Brando said:

Adding the wood would lower the ph a little right?

Yes, it will, so do this. Soak first though in dechlorinated water (warm or boiling if possible) like Simon suggested, to remove any nasties. 

 

10 minutes ago, Brando said:

Also, are the parameters I mentioned in my original post safe enough right now.

They're okay, but we do want to be slowly fixing them. Step one is driftwood for pH, step two is cycling the aquarium for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate. 

 

10 minutes ago, Brando said:

I do not have a FH/kh testing kit either.

If you can, please purchase one. There is a good one made by API, quite cheap, will last a while and easy to use/read. This is very important to shrimp.

Here it is from aquarium co-op: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/api-gh-kh-test-kit-combo

Edited by Crabby
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sdlTBfanUK

As long as the shrimps are active and healthy looking then I think you are ok for now and just carry on trying to 'cycle' as per JayC recommended.

There isn't much more you can do without ALL the parameters anyway. Even the strip ones are better than none!

But at this point if the shrimp look healthy and active you don't need to stress, just enjoy watching them doing their thing!

It would be interesting to know more about the tank and setup if you have time?

Simon

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Brando

Hi guys thank you for your help. 

 

So i will add the driftwood to lower PH, and add fluval cycle once every 2 days with shrimp in aquarium. Should I do frequent 10-25% water changes if ammonia gets higher from the fluval cycle? I think I might of read somewhere that it will raise the ammonia.

Best,

Brandon

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sdlTBfanUK

I'm probably the wrong one to answer this????

Do as JayC stated and only use half dose every 2 days of the fluval cycle. I believe you only need to do a water change if the ammonia goes too high (so remove some ammonia)! I imagine that that product does add ammonia as that is the start of the cycle? The other reason for doing a water change is if the PH drops too low (below 6.5ish) but I doubt this is likely with your high PH reading, at this point anyway! Soil substrates usually lower/buffer the PH but I assume you are using sand or gravel, which is usual with cherry shrimp? 

The Indian almond leaves and driftwood should very slowly reduce the PH, though the driftwood isn't yet in the tank of coarse! Hopefully the tank will have already cycled by the time the driftwood is ready to  go in the tank anyway.

Simon

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beanbag
18 hours ago, Brando said:

Ok I will continue to add fluval cycle every other day starting today. I have a piece of driftwood I could add which will lower ph too. Should I only water change once a week?

wait wait

Do NOT add driftwood unless you know it is a kind that is shrimp safe and also free of pesticides and chemicals

Second, boil the driftwood at least 1/2 hours in distilled water so that it doesn't suddenly release a whole bunch of things in the water.

Third, do not attempt to use this to push around the pH value, especially if you don't know what is the KH value is.  You don't want sudden pH changes.  Use something a bit more gentle like Indian Almond leaf, which you can immediately take out if you overdo it.

Fourth get the API liquid test kits for Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate and test every day.

Fifth, get something like Seachem Prime that can protect against ammonia.  If you ever see ammonia or nitrite, then dose this approx 1 drip per gallon per day.  If you don't see any, then still dose something like 1 drip per 2 gallons per day anyway, until you are sure that the cycle is established.  You can look up the instructions and dosing guidelines for Seachem's fish-in-tank cycle guide.  (Except here you will be using Fluval cycle instead of Seachem Stability)

Edited by beanbag
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Brando

Update:

My water temperature was read wrong.... it was not 82 haha but instead it is 72.. (which is better right)

My PH is still 7.6 after adding some mopani driftwood that i boiled for 3 hours and soaked for 1 hour.

MY ammonia appears to be closer to 0ppm,if not between 0 and .25pm. (definitely not .25 anymore)

My nitrites are still at 0.

My nitrates have risen to what I think might be 30-40ppm from 20ppm.

The shrimp seem to acting normal! eating and loving the driftwood!

I added the fluval cycle yesterday as well.

Thank you all for the help so far and I am open to hearing more advice 🙂

 

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sdlTBfanUK

That temperature is perfect!

The wood and any Indian Almond leaves will be a slow (and that is what you want) PH reduction.

It looks to be going well, the main thing is to change things very slowly if everything is otherwise ok! If the shrimp are active and investigating that is a good sign!

Simon

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jayc
5 hours ago, Brando said:

it was not 82 haha but instead it is 72.. (which is better right)

Yes, just right.

 

5 hours ago, Brando said:

MY ammonia appears to be closer to 0ppm,if not between 0 and .25pm. (definitely not .25 anymore)

My nitrites are still at 0.

My nitrates have risen to what I think might be 30-40ppm from 20ppm.

That's good news. It looks like there is some bacteria in the tank and it's processing the ammonia. Nitrates are building up however, but that can be reduced with water changes. Continue using the Fluval Cycle at every water change, ie. weekly.

Just keep working on reducing the pH slowly.

 

 

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Crabby

Do you have plants in the tank? And sorry for asking multiple times, but can you send a photo of the tank through so we can see the setup? 

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Brando
On 2/20/2020 at 6:56 PM, jayc said:

Unfortunately, this doesn't mean the tank is cycled and ready for livestock yet. "Cycled" meaning that it has the beneficial bacteria in it to process the ammonia waste created by livestock. A tank needs to be setup and run for many more days before it can be considered cycled and ready for livestock. I would suggest continue using the Fluval cycle every 2 days at half dose until you use up the bottle. And don't forget about your weekly 10% water changes with fresh dechlorinated water remineralised to the proper parameters for your cherry shrimp.

Shrimps are not as hardy as fish, they need to specific water parameter range to do well in. 

Cherry Shrimps parameters are approximately:

Ammonia, Nitrite - 0ppm

Nitrates - 0-20ppm 

GH - 3-4

KH 0-1

Temps 22-24C

pH 6.5 - 7.0

TDS 120-180

 

The fact that we see a possible 0.25ppm of ammonia here, really leads me to believe the tanks isn't cycled properly yet. As above, keep using the Fluval cycle until the bottle is used up. We are doing this with the hopes of keeping the shrimp alive until the tank is REALLY cycled.

Temps of 82F or 27C is getting a bit too warm for shrimps. Where are you located? And do you have an open top tank or a closed tank? Add a picture of your tank. That might help us get a perspective of what we are dealing with.

pH is also a bit high, and it looks like you are using tap water. Tap water normally has a high pH due to the stuff that is added into it by the water providers.

Overall, water parameters are all a bit too high along with a possible un-cycled tank. We will need to start work on reducing all of these. 

Ok I will continue to add fluval cycle every other day starting today. I have a piece of driftwood I could add which will lower ph too. Should I only water change once a week?

Also, I have 3 java ferns, some small almond leaves, and driftwood. I can’t upload a picture due to size.

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sdlTBfanUK

You're doing fine so carry on as you are until you feel the cycle is done. My normal schedule is 10%water change every week however I don't think you need to do any while the cycle is going on until/unless the nitrates or ammonia get too high, or the PH gets too low. The lower the Ph the slower the bacteria reproduce! As you only have 2 shrimps they won't be messing the water enough anyway at this stage, I hope they are still doing well?

Can you take a lower resolution photo, or reduce the photo size on a computer? If you want to email it to me I can reduce it for you lavissimon@gmail.com - I had to do it often in the past..

Simon

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Brando

Update:

February 25:

Water Temp 70-72

PH: 7.8 now.. not sure how it went from 7.6 to 7.8 after adding mopani drift wood?

Ammonia: 0!!!!! 

Nitrite: 0!!!!

NitrAte: 10-20 ( I think 10)

My shrimp molted for the first time since getting them! 

I have been adding fluval cycle (half dose) every 2 days.

And been doing a 10% water chang every few days as well.

Do i know my tank is done cycling when ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate is all 0?

Thanks!

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Crabby

Well the way the cycle will work is each will spike, so first you will get really high ammonia, then high nitrite, then high nitrate. Once you get ammonia and nitrite to 0 and have the nitrate spike, your tank is ‘cycled’. But it usually takes a couple weeks. Keep doing what you’re doing for a bit I reckon.

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jayc
4 hours ago, Brando said:

PH: 7.8 now.. not sure how it went from 7.6 to 7.8

You have something in your tank that is raising GH, or KH or both and increasing pH.

Usually this means you have some sort of rock in the tank. Still waiting on a picture of the tank if you can manage it.

 

4 hours ago, Brando said:

Do i know my tank is done cycling when ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate is all 0?

Not quite. Ammonia will be turned into Nitrite. Nitrite will be turned into Nitrates. There will always be some Nitrate unless there is no ammonia being produced.

So when Ammonia and Nitrite are zero; and Nitrates climb to 20 or over, than you might have a cycled tank. Which is what you have now.

To be sure the tank really is cycled, keep up the routine as Crabby said above, and as I also mentioned previously ... keep it up until you finish the bottle. There is no use keeping a half empty Fluval cycle, it's not like the bacteria in that bottle will live long enough for use the next time you need to cycle another tank.

Besides, if you ever need to cycle another new tank, you use the filter from this tank and wash it in the new tank. Yes, get all that gunk from a mature filter into the new tank. That will seed the new tank with millions of bacteria. No need for any store bought bottled bacteria.

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