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sajica

Don't forget to cull.

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sajica

This topic isn't aimed at anyone specifically or indicates that any recently acquired shrimp are less than average and nor will I dob anyone in that may have sold me dodgy shrimp. I'll say a few statements and everyone can discuss the points brought forward, to save me from becoming a ranting maniac.

When our shrimp breed, we owe it to ourselves, the shrimp strains and the species and strains available in Australia to cull ANY shrimp that don't meet the grade. Now What does and doesn't meet the grade is subjective. But I wouldn't sell someone, something I wouldn't buy myself or have in my own aquarium.

Breed for Quality, not Quantity. Otherwise we'll eventually end up with crap shrimp like some Cherries I've seen which the females were predominantly clear with a few red spots.

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Gbang

I agree with you to a point. The only difference is I keep all my culls for beginners who want to start shrimp keeping. In the event that they are unsuccessful in their first attempt. I would prefer it to be culls than quality shrimp. How does everyone cull their shrimp?

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mickeyG

From a newbie point of few its hard to cull the non graders but a chat with dean and also a fellow shrimper I did it and man my colony is hurting but now I have hope ill get to the solid colors I wanted.

Could anyone put up examples of what they would cull compared to what to keep? Ie A grade crs/CBS cull/ keeper? I've seen gradin charts but from an Australian stock point of view and the shimp I have bought against international grading do we still go by the charts?

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Robert

I dont think the issue is regarding culling but more honesty of the seller.

Say for example my selective bred C grades, should i cull or continue to breed white and reds? its a matter of taste.

But then again you raise the issue of grades. the bee shrimp grading scale goes from C-SSS-Golds-Whites. It accounts for every grade regardless of the colour or quality.

I understand what you mean about the cherries, but if they are 50 cents a piece you cant really ask for something full red. Most of the time cheapo cherries are only purchased by beginners or for feeders. eventually culled :P

The more you cull in your tank the smaller your gene pool becomes so sure you could cull and trade quality for fertility.

Also australian crs stocks have gone to the grave yard to be honest. In the past year especially so much gold/white blood has been mixed that patterns mean nothing now.

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planted

i really think it's up to the individual what ever they do with there shrimp, the only drama i have is with people selling their shrimp as higher grades than they actually are, and have been stung a cpl of times in the past.

as mentioned some people just want to start off with lower grades to make sure they can keep them ok before forking out big dollars on good grades.

"my 2 cents anyway"

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mickeyG

Ive only culled once but my mates baby murry shortkneck loved patchy CBS.. I love CBS and turtles so it seemed fitting haha

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honcho

i think the opposite.. i pick the best of the best and put in a new tank..

i then put left over culls in my cull tank..

as you never know what accidently gets produced..

i do not sell my culls unless someone really wants them..I like to keep them to see what happens ..

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Gbang

I know a few people like honcho. After all. All shrimp deserve to be loved lol. Amazing how different everyone treats their culls!

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BlueBolts

Great thread Sajica, and definitely worth a discussion. As hobbyist, we travel the road of maturity, and there's no doubt there's demand for different grades for different levels of hobbyist. As we mature, we tend to become more selective, and what we perhaps considered a SS grade previously, would now be A or even a B grade.

i would suggest we keep with the International STD, and have a reference to what makes each grade etc, so that all new hobbyist can use it as a quick and easy reference. There's many references on the Internet, just need someone to collate, and create a easy to understand reference point, with lots of pics...etc, as many hobbyist who sell/trade their shrimps may also not be aware....benefit of the doubt....but no doubt there are others that are out to do the wrong thing.

We should also have some sort of code if ethics, where all shrimp sold should have a DOA policy. Can't imagine a new hobbyist who have saved up to purchase shrimps, receive them DOA, and end up loosing $ and shrimps....just doesn't seem fair. There are obviously steps for the DOA policy to take effect.... i.e. picture when opening bag, call....

i think it'll be a great tool for the library, and will help us hobbyist improve our quality, and expectations...etc...

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mickeyG

Isn't the point of culling to stop crap lines/blood from spreading? Like with fish if it is deformed it is expected to cull asap isnt shrimp pattern and solidness the same ?

Comin from a buyer's view to I'm trying my best for solid pattern so I'd hate my 50$60 CBS getting knocked up by my c grade cull. Just cuz I didn't have tank space. In saying that if I had better stock to begin with I doubt I could feeder them to be honest

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planted

deformity and patterns/colouring are nothing in the same.

yes if i had deformed fish/shrimps i would cull, but i would not cull just because of colours or pattern shapes

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sajica

I don't have a problem with people keeping culls or selling them to noobs as culls. I've been in that situation, but to sell something that isn't indicative of it's type isn't cool. If they're listed as culls no issue you know what you're getting yourself into, but for example to be sold near solid rilli shrimp at top prices. That's not playing nice.

The mentality of "I only get 50c a cherry so I don't care" is part of the problem that they're where they are now. Hell I'd hate to hear someone feeding off my *not yet existant* solid red cherries as feeders. It would break my heart.

There are many issues but being sold crap at high/ full price when it's not worth it sucks. Honesty is important, along with integrity and trust.

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plecofan09

I think the biggest issue is grading everyone has a different opinion, one person might say its an A grade another would say B grade then another would say S grade.

So i AGREE with BB there should be a clear grading guide , and i think this forum has more then enough members to create one in the library.

I too have been stungpaying top dollar for sh*t grade shrimps, and i think a lot of beginners will get burnt buying graded shrimps that are culls.

i myself now only buy from trusted breeders that way you pay for what u get.

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BlueBolts

Everyone's point is absolutely valid. I presume one of the many motivation to create a closed forum like SKF, is to establish an environment where our focus is to create great interactiom for new/experience hobbyist to share all our experiences. Buying & Purchasing of shrimps is a difficult one, but I think with some set guidelines, education and discussion, we all can have an environment where we can trade, buy & sell fairly. Often a hobbyist selling their shrimps may also genuinely believe that's they're a S grade, whereas t maybe a A/B grade, so courtesy and a PM to clarify the situation is always the best solution and point of discussion.

Purchasing from a reputable hobbyist is important, and with SKF's reputation bar, hopefully this would also encourage members to select whom they purchase their shrimps from. I'm guilty of this too, but if any members have had a good experience with a seller, then we should fwd them a reputation point etc, so that this tool becomes useful.

I seriously believe with SKF's close forum, reputation bar, and some clear grading guide, we will achieve a positive environment for its members and hobby.

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sajica

If everyone collaborates and can supply photos it will make grading a lot easier and I for one would enjoy the "Open Source" approach. If we're doing it based on CBS and CRS then I would personally vote that crosses between the 2, no matter how nice the stripes may be are exempt from grading and are given some sort of lowered standard (Z Grade?) It's not acceptable as far as I'm concerned to be breeding them in the same tank and producing brown striped individuals. It's not a CRS and not a CBS. It's something that is a mongrel/ bitsa.

I'm sure all the breeders of all the fancy types of bulldogs (for example) will only breed within that strain and any crosses that COULD happen would be frowned upon/ not considered either/ or.

Note I have no background in fancy dog associations so I''m unsure how their criteria works.

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wayne6442

Culls!! A big issue, I have noticed lately that cull shrimp have been passed off as graded shrimp to noobs more often. I can only warn people to deal with with known breeders or only people on this forum ( there should not be any scammers here ?)The good breeders will always advertise their cull shrimp as such, regardless of what price they ask for them. I have just started letting some of my culls go ,two lots have gone to breeders who want them to breed for feeders and another lot went to a breeder who wanted to take pot luck with them and see what may come. My cull tank has been in operation now for over three years and the above are the only shrimp that have been let go. All culls a worth keeping for some time ( it really is amazing at what can appear sometimes ) As I only breed cherries my culling programmes are mainly based on shrimp colouration. The majority are the left overs from my Orange Sun-Kissed programme and these cull shrimp range in hues from natural wild types ,some greenish, some blue, pale orange, washed out yellow caramel, to a hint of chocolate. If I had fifty tanks I could be working on at least 30 colour varieties. Culling to me has to be very subjective, there is no room for a maybe, your standards have to be high and you have to be hard on yourself, at least with your cull tank in operation you can give your maybe's a second chance. In the start of my orange Sun-kissed programme I culled from about 1500 red cherries down to around 50 shrimp over time, about 8 months. These guys formed the basis for my breeders, and it just goes on from there. Unfortunately now my pure red line has suffered and I only have around 30 pure red cherries left so it is time for me to go back to basics and get some new high quality Red cherrie genes back into my programmes. sell off as many of my present Orange Sun-kissed and then add 5 or six new reds with different genes to the mix and develop them further. Some of my other colour varieties are coming along well, but will be a year or so before you will see them on the market. Happy culling everyone it is a necessity to cull to develop new colours etc but remember the original blood lines need to be preserved above all !!! The other thing that you have to be aware of, is that if you interbreed to hard it will not be long before your shrimp to revert back to their natural original wild types. This in itself is not a bad thing as the wild type shrimp is a beautiful shrimp it it's own right, but at the moment it is not the direction we want to take our hobby as no one in Australia has as yet had the experience to start the ball rolling again positively . though a lot of us are well on the way in that direction. Happy Breeding! Regards Wayne

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zacsbee89

I've just started culling my red cherries to a pond. The only problem is I'm not sure what a good/bad quality male is. It's easy with females. There either red or not. Males, not so easy. Lol

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wayne6442

Mate try this, What I do is catch 3 or 4 shrimp lay them in the palm of my hand and hold my hand under the sun, I then select the shrimp that shows the darker colour all over. By the way I consider this is the best way to tell if your shrimp have total colour or patchy colour. I have only done this with cherries and I don't know how it would go with crs/cbs though I think the results would be the same.

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fishmosy

I find the best way to cull is to move the best shrimp to a new tank. Reason is that little shrimplets have a good habit of hiding amongst plants/wood/decorations so almost impossible to sort them out. Unfortunately this does mean I'm running out of tanks to put new shrimp in.

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bigjohnnofish

no problems culling got a large cattie that eats everything....

but what i have noticed is cherry shrimp from glass bottom tanks dont display the same colour as when put into a tank with substrate....

took out around 20 red cherries for feeders to give some L066's and now i have a small bright red colony hiding amongst the wood,algae and plants...

same with yellow cherries when they hit some substrate they glowed with colour.....

ninja shrimp stay clear in glass bottom 99% of the time and when on substrate go anything from red-purple-brown-black and anything in between :)

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Gbang

Great point Johnno. Always remember that shrimps put on their best Colour on dark substrate so if u have a bare tank... U never know about the true potential and quality!

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