Please Help! Vorticella won't die no matter what I do

[lambsauce]

Hi everyone, I know this is sudden but I created this account out of desperate need of help from seasoned shrimpkeepers like yourself. I have had a vorticella infestation for about 2 months now and I cant seem to get rid of them. 

As for some background info on my little tank/container. It is a cycled 4 gallon  that has been established for two years. I bought some blue neocaridinia shrimp without realizing that they had the disease until they reached my home. I realized that a contributing factor to the population growth of vorticella had been the over abundance of detritius and shrimp waster. So for the last week or two I've been cleaning up the bottom and trying to remove molts.

I have tried to use the salt bath method on the infected shrimp. I collected about 8 fl oz or a cup of water alongside a teaspoon of salt( I am confident it was a teaspoon) and gave them a 45 second bath. The first time I accidentally used too much salt and the shrimp I placed in that salt bath died from the shock. But suprisingly under my magnifier, the vorticella were still attatched on.

I have also used Safeguard( Dog dewormer) which contains 22% fenbendazole. As followed i ensured that I utilized 0.1 grams of the product and placed it into the tank about a week ago. But alas, it didnt really do much to get rid of them. I havent performed a water change since using Safeguard to ensure the concentration of fenbendazole was present. 2 days ago I decided to take the risk and add another 0.1 gram of safeguard, hence doubling the safe dosage. The shrimp were suprisingly alive but again the vorticella were still alive.

I honestly am feeling hopeless and have no idea what else to do. I am on a very tight budget and it did cost me some money to get the appropiate salt and Dog dewormer. I would be grateful for feedback from anybody who has dealt with vorticella.

If you look closely the leg and head region have white specs/fuzzy like thing on them on them . I am confident that they are indeed vorticella and not Scutariella japonica  as I have also dealt with them in the past and been sucessful in handling them using salt bath. They do not seem to be fungus as they have very small stalks 

@Zoidburg @jayc Sirs, I have seen your advice before on this forum , I would greatly appreciate your input on this. Thank You

Edited November 24, 2019 by lambsauce

[jayc]

Where are you located?

If you have tried the salt bath and fenbendazole, and both didn't work you could try meds for planaria/hydra.

I'm really surprised fenbendazole didn't do the job. Technically the planaria hydra meds are fenbendazole based as well, but it might be safer doses for shrimp. Either the product you used didn't have the right amount of fenbendazole, or it's not vorticella we are dealing with. Please note, I cannot see it in the pictures you have supplied properly. I see something on the shrimp, but I cannot ID it 100%.

 

If you truely believe it is vorticella try using -

Genchem No Planaria, Benbachi planaria zero, etc.

Try those. Half dose it for the first week. Then add full dose the 2nd week. And 3rd week.

50% water change just before adding in a dose.

 

Or you can try hydrogen peroxide H2O2.

Measure the water volume of your aquarium. Take into consideration (approximately) substrate, decorations, etc.

Use 3% Hydrogen peroxide at 1.5ml per gallon or per 4.5 liters once weekly. Keep this up for 3 weeks.

Normal weekly water change.

[sdlTBfanUK]

It may be worth trying this as it is for Planaia/Hydra (as JayC above) and is from sources in the US which I think is where you are. It worked well for the hydra I had and it is a natural product, really easy to use and harmless to shrimps so i would give it a go. Just add a dose once and that is it (a repeat may be needed).

https://buceplant.com/products/sl-aqua-bio-protector-z1?variant=12225133609041

https://www.jungleaquashrimp.com/sl-aqua-bio-protector-z1-planaria-hydra-remover/

Simon

Edited November 25, 2019 by sdlTBfanUK

[lambsauce]

Yes, I am from the U.S., California specifically.  I am sure the product i used has the proper amount of fenbendazole. It is the brand safegyard and is specifically a dog dewormer with 22% fenbendazole per gram. If this was inefffective, I am not sure if using other products containing the same ingredient would be worth the investment

[sdlTBfanUK]

The one I sent links too is a natural plant extract (I believe) and it worked on my hydra effectively and didn't harm the shrimps or snails or plants and you just add one dose and your done! It isn't actually meant for what you think it may be and I understand it can get expensive buying different things to try when you don't know whether it will work, but I would give it a try as it isn't too expensive and it won't harm anything even if it doesn't work? Try a second dose though if it doesn't work first time as you will have it to hand anyway and as I say, it won't do any harm to anything else, except possibly snails but mine were fine?

Actually looked at the links and they are out of stock so you will need to find somewhere else that sells it or wait, sorry about that!

Simon

Edited November 26, 2019 by sdlTBfanUK

[jayc]

1 hour ago, lambsauce said:

If this was inefffective, I am not sure if using other products containing the same ingredient would be worth the investment

Worth another shot at it especially with the SL-Aqua product Simon linked.

 

[beanbag]

Just want to make sure you used aquarium salt and not table salt with iodine.

[Zoidburg]

The products sold to kill planaria (No Planaria/Planaria Zero, Z1?) are usually made out of betel nut, not Fenbendazole.

BorneoWild Extermine is made with camille seeds.

[lambsauce]

Understood, I will try to save up the money to buy and try this product. If I have any further questions then, I will definitely reach out to you guys again and update!

[lambsauce]

I am finally able to get a break from school and can now focus on treating these shrimp. Apologies for not being able to get back to the shrimps. After doing some research, I realized that Vorticella are protozoan( single celled)  parasites while hydra, planaria and scuterellia are are muticellular creatures/worms. That being said I wonder if That is why I wasnt able to treat the shrimp with fenbendazole. Apologies if I am having doubts but I am wondering if products used for these would also be effective for vorticella. As a college student, I am on a really tight budget and I just want to make sure my purchase counts. I have also seen malachite green and paraguard to be something some people recommend although I am not sure on their efectiveness. Looking at the pictures I sent, do You guys also believe I have vorticella. Maybe I misinterpreted the parasite?

 

I just want to know what products you guys have used to directly tackle this exact parasite?

Edited December 25, 2019 by lambsauce

[Zoidburg]

Have you taken a look at this thread as well through your research?

 

https://skfaquatics.com/forum/forums/topic/5052-shrimp-diseases-and-diagnosis/

[lambsauce]

Yes I have looked at it before and they have only recommended either salt bath( which did not work for me despite super high concentrations) or paraguard( I have heard of mixed results)

[Zoidburg]

There's another area further down that mentions other treatments.

 

 

I've used Fenbendazole and it worked... but I'll never use it again. I feel like it caused havoc on my tank. Salt baths also worked.

Maybe though, if treatments haven't been effective, it's something else... such as fungus?

[lambsauce]

Well to be exact, the salt baths do remove some but it takes me about 3- 45 second salt baths to remove maybe half of them. And these are extremely high concentrations I am using. 1.5 tablespoons( not teaspoon) per 8 fluid ounces ( a cup). The shrimp are obviously stressed because they roll over and lay still on their backs until i put them back into freshwater. Thats when they're active again. Looking back at the picture i took of the rostrum, doesnt it look like vorticella to you. I know for sure its not scuterellia because i am also dealing with it right now in my red cherry tank and they look different. It doesnt have a cotton like appearance so it doesnt seem like fungus to me. 

I think Ive read somewhere that fenbendazole attacks the nervous system or parasites. Since vorticella is basically single celled, it doesnt have a nervous system like them. 

Each of the dots represent an individual stalk looking thing. and from pictures, it resembles vorticella the most.

Edited December 27, 2019 by lambsauce

[Zoidburg]

Treatments for vorticella and scutariella are the same... so a treatment that works for scutariella should also work with vorticella.

Yes, I do believe it appears to be vorticella, but just throwing another thought out just in case it's something else, since treatments thus far haven't been completely effective. I should have been clearer in my previous post as I used Fenbendazole for scutariella, not vorticella.

[lambsauce]

Hmm I am now thinking about using hydrogen peroxide to try to kill off the bests. Marks Shrimp Tanks Recommended that I use it for vorticella. 

https://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/36/d036p213.pdf

link shows research on stuff that kills ciliates similar to vorticella. Since hydrogen peroxide basically oxidizes whatever organic matter it touches and then the rest become oxygen and water. I assume it to be more harmless

[jayc]

Let us know how you go.

[Zoidburg]

Haven't heard of hydrogen peroxide used to kill vorticella... but I have heard of it being potentially harmful to shrimp.... and it's recommended to get food grade hydrogen peroxide, not the stuff off of the shelves in most stores. Food grade is often much stronger than what's on the shelves, too.

[Roxee broo]

Hi ! I am presently dealing with the same issue ! Did you found any solution that worked for you???

[jayc]

2 hours ago, Roxee broo said:

Hi ! I am presently dealing with the same issue ! Did you found any solution that worked for you???

Our forum article has the treatment for vorticella.

a strong salt bath as listed in the article should work.