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Crabby

My 110 L Community Tank

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Crabby

Thought I’d share some good news with everybody today. 
Firstly the longfin has healed up 100%, so I think it must have just been a scrape or burn. 
And secondly, while I was away for the weekend my ‘fish-sitter’ informed me that one of my endler females has dropped! It’s my first group of babies ever, and they’re doing fantastic! I have them in a breeder box alone (removed mum, she’s back to getting harassed by the guys), and my other pregnant female is gonna drop any day now. She’s also in her own mesh box. I got around 40 or so fry from the first mum, and I reckon I’ll get 40-50 from the other, so gonna be raising close to 90 fish in my little 5 gal 😂. Hope I can get the worse ones off my hands soonish, I’ll be keeping maybe my favourite 5 or so. If anyone is interested I will post a pic of the mother and possible fathers below (orange one is least likely), and you can pick up in Melbourne for free, up to 20 fish.  

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Edited by Crabby
Added photos and revised amount of babies - there’s heaps!
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jayc

Very generous. 

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Crabby

Nah mate I just need to get them off my hands!

Edited by Crabby
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sdlTBfanUK

Beautiful endlers, thanks for the pictures!

I don't have much luck with endlers, they are/were one of my favourites.

Simon

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Blazepelt

Has the other female dropped yet?

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Crabby

Haha @Blazepelt trying to get me to announce it on SKF when you already know? Yeah, she dropped sometime in the last 5 hours while I was out. Definitely more fry than the other female, at least 50 if not 60 or 70! Leaving her in the box for a few more hours just in case she squeezes a couple more out. But I probably have close to 100 fry right now!!! It’s awesome! And my offer for some free fry is still standing, because I’m going to need to unload them over the next couple months.

Edited by Crabby
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sdlTBfanUK

Do you have a local store that may take some off your hands when they are ready to be re-homed? Most aquarium places in UK take unwanted fish, though they wouldn't pay for them but that's fair enough!

Simon

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Crabby
On 1/29/2020 at 7:42 PM, sdlTBfanUK said:

Do you have a local store that may take some off your hands when they are ready to be re-homed? Most aquarium places in UK take unwanted fish, though they wouldn't pay for them but that's fair enough!

Simon

Yeah I’ve got plenty. I know some will buy lines, all will accept free fish that they stock and some might pay cheap for mutts. Mine (depending on the fathers) could look like a line or more of a mutt. I’ll also be trying to sell on gumtree maybe. I reckon if I can make 50 cents on a guppy on average I can make $50, and that’ll handle the breeding tank expenses so that future money made through tha can go into my other aquarium ventures. But again, it’s all about whether they’ll be nice enough for people to pay for yet. 
I’ll only give them away for free to a store if it’s absolutely necessary. 

Edited by Crabby
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Crabby

So I'm wanting to restock my shrimp in my 29 gallon tank, but I'm not sure how to go about it. At this moment in time I would be interested keeping any shrimp on the planet other than ghost shrimp! But the thing is, I dived head-first straight into caridina, because after doing research for 4 months before getting a tank I thought "Well, I know all the technical stuff for keeping them, why shouldn't I try a harder shrimp!". Now the problem is that I only have 2 shrimp left, and they're both males. I only once had a berried female, but I lost her a while ago - she just disappeared. I've actually only seen 2 shrimp dead in all this time, once when we had a heat wave, and once when the power was out for a bit and I didn't have any aerators on hand. I was thinking to switch to cherries just because everyone says they're so easy, and that was the plan from the beginning. The problem with that though is my pH sits around 6.4-6.8 most of the time, and slowly drops after I remineralise until my next water change. My GH and KH are at 4 and 2 usually, and I think these parameters might be too soft for cherries.

My other option I think would be to get a couple female TTS or maybe CRS (to make some fancy tigers) and breed my remaining stock to get more. I would likely breed them in my 5 gal that is now running with a guppy in it, then move the babies into the 29 once they are large enough.

I could also try to breed the DAE and/or Darwin red nose shrimp that I'll be getting soon for my 5, and put the babies in the 29, as these are larger species. But again I'm not sure if my parameters would be suitable. And I don't want to change my remineralisation method, other than maybe adding some crushed coral in the back left corner.

Could I get some votes? Cherry, Caridina (and which type), or native (and which type). And what parameters you recommend for each.

Cheers,

C

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sdlTBfanUK

I would start trying to get your parameters a bit higher which you can easily do as you have GH/KH+, which may also help raise the PH a bit (also add some Indian almond leaves). Do it really slowly though so you don't upset anything. The GH/KH+ should raise those at 2:1 rates (ie current 4:2, then 6:3, then 8:4, though I would stick at 6:3). I don't think it worth trying CRS as they are so visable, especially on the black substrate that they will shout 'EAT ME', especially when young, and with all the fish etc it probably isn't worth trying the more difficult shrimp in that particular tank. I would go for some more Tangerine Tigers and one other colour of cherry shrimp, maybe blue so they contrast with the yellow of the TT, and they will be less obviously visable to the fish when on the black sand and young. There aren't many hiding spaces, especially for young shrimp in your beautifully set up tank???

The TT and cherry are much easier and adaptable to different parameters and should be fine with a PH below 7 but just do a longer acclimate!

Has the fish with the marks on its head improved/recovered?

Simon

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Crabby

Thanks for the response Simon! 

13 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

help raise the PH a bit (also add some Indian almond leaves)

In my experience Indian almond leaves reduce ph... don’t I want to bring it up a little? Cherries won’t like 6.4 or anything.

13 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

I don't think it worth trying CRS as they are so visable, especially on the black substrate that they will shout 'EAT ME',

Yeah fair enough. Hadn’t thought about that.

13 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Tangerine Tigers and one other colour of cherry shrimp, maybe blue

That was actually my original hope/plan, and you are definitely tempting me! I love the blues. 

 

13 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

There aren't many hiding spaces, especially for young shrimp in your beautifully set up tank???

There aren’t any for the adults anymore really, they just hide in plants and between breeder boxes, but in the driftwood there’s loads of divots that I’ve filled with mosses and anubias roots. I also have moss in between my rocks, which absolutely no fish can get into. And there’s also places where the shrimp aren’t very visible. ie between some leaves of my java fern, or in the roots of that, or even in a little ‘cave’ that’s a big divot beneath the driftwood that forms an arch, with a hollow above it that gets totally dark. In addition to all that, I’ve started growing a carpet of dwarf hairgrass on the left, and dwarf chain swords on the right. This provides plenty of ground cover, although my current shrimp have ignored it so far. It may not be perfect, but for a teeny young shrimp there are totally options.

13 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

The TT and cherry are much easier and adaptable to different parameters and should be fine with a PH below 7 but just do a longer acclimate!

Alright.

 

13 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Has the fish with the marks on its head improved/recovered?

Yes I think I mentioned that in my last post, he made a full recovery within a week. Must have only been a graze or a burn. 
I really appreciate the help Simon!

Cheers,

C

Edited by Crabby
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Crabby

Sorry, but @jayc any chance I could get a second opinion on this? Wanting as much advice as I can get, so I have the best chance of not killing any shrimp.

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jayc
26 minutes ago, Crabby said:

any chance I could get a second opinion on this?

Sure. But can you summarise what you are trying to achieve again? 

are you debating on which type of shrimp to keep based on your current water parameters?

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Crabby

Sorry, yes I should have clarified. I’m trying to decide which shrimp I should keep based on parameters and the fish I keep (basically the apistos and huge endler females are the only ones who would matter), out of any natives but ghost shrimp, any neos or caridina shrimp.

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jayc

Is that Apisto in the same tank as the shrimps?

That's going to be a huge risk to shrimps. Apistos will definitely eat them.

 

You seem to be maintaining stable parameters for CRS, ever since removing the rocks in your tank.

I would suggest going for CRS, even if they are fussier with parameters. It's harder changing parameters now.

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sdlTBfanUK

I'm pleased the fish has recovered!

My bad about the Indian almond leaves, you are right, they help reduce PH! Busy day yesterday with the new shrimp arriving, hope they survive, though nothing went right, d'oh??????

Simon

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Crabby
15 hours ago, jayc said:

Is that Apisto in the same tank as the shrimps?

That's going to be a huge risk to shrimps. Apistos will definitely eat them.

Yes, the pair are, but I don’t have any room for more tanks than the two I have, and I just can’t bring myself to get rid of them. They’re my favourite fish (other than maybe the pair of pseudomugil luminatus I have in my other tank), and I love them too much to sell them. They actually haven’t been showing much predatory behaviour as of late, but the male probably could fit a shrimp in his mouth. That’s why I asked about natives, as the DAE and Darwin red nose are meant to get larger than normal dwarf shrimp. Also if I can get the shrimp to breed then I shouldn’t have much of a problem even if he does eat a couple on occasion. And I’m maybe not meant to mention it, but Blazepelt and I are setting up a little 200L breeding pond for shrimp and livebearers, so I could have that as my ‘safety net’ for restocking I guess, if I do lose some. 

 

16 hours ago, jayc said:

I would suggest going for CRS

Could I do a test with 5 cherries (dark blue or fire red) and 5 CRS/CBS, and see who does better, or if they all survive? Would both be able to do well in my current parameters? If so I may just test this out and see what happens. 

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sdlTBfanUK

You could certainly try both as the parameters are better for Crystals but they are more sensitive and the cherry are more versatile and would probably adapt just fine with a bit longer acclimating?

It is unlikely to work as even if the fish don't ear the adults they WILL eat the babies, but maybe that's a lesson you need to learn the hard way, or it may work out, only one way to be 100% sure?

Simon

Edited by sdlTBfanUK
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jayc

You could certainly try shrimps with fish in one tank, although it is a risk. That is a risk you will need to weigh up as it can be an expensive meal for the fish. 

Cherries are much smaller, so they face a greater risk against an apisto. 

Our local natives Darwin red nose is a bit bigger than cherries, and they are more camouflaged, so that can be an option. But our natives prefer more neutral pH waters. Like Tiger type of parameters.

DAE is fun to have, but they don't breed in freshwater. So the fun only lasts so long.

Crystal shrimps are also slightly bigger than cherries, and might fair better with an apisto. 

The larger shrimps like Typus, Amano and the filter feeders like Bamboo shrimp are probably the only ones that will hold their own against an apisto.

Your test of 5 each is probably a good idea. Start out small, and see how your fish react to possible prey around.

Can you move ALL your fish into one tank and free up one just for shrimp?

Remember, even if a shrimp can't fit into a fishes mouth, the fish can still pick at it's legs and extremities until the shrimp dies. it will still try to hunt the shrimps. I've had killie fish eat up all my black cherries in one tank, eventhough the killies grew up as fry with the shrimp. They just turned one day and decimated all my black shrimp. that's the issue with not having enough tanks for a species only tank. One killie even died with a shrimp stuck in it's mouth choked to death. Double whammie - both fish and shrimp dying. I like the analogy of Lions eating a wildebeest - the lions don't swallow it whole, they take chunks out of their prey. 

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Crabby
12 minutes ago, jayc said:

You could certainly try shrimps with fish in one tank, although it is a risk. That is a risk you will need to weigh up as it can be an expensive meal for the fish. 

Yeah, it's a bit of an unfortunate risk. I really like having the two cohabitating, as they are quite different and bring different aspects of the hobby together. I keep thinking 'well, they live together in the wild, why shouldn't it work in my tank??', but I know that there's much more than that to it.

18 minutes ago, jayc said:

Cherries are much smaller, so they face a greater risk against an apisto.

Ah, didn't realise there was a size difference. Maybe I'll take them out of my test and try the Darwin red nose.

19 minutes ago, jayc said:

Our local natives Darwin red nose is a bit bigger than cherries, and they are more camouflaged, so that can be an option. But our natives prefer more neutral pH waters. Like Tiger type of parameters.

That's why I bought the crushed coral sand as well. To bring params up in my 5 gal for the natives I wanted to keep in it. I could put a little into the 29 I guess. I think I'll do darwin red nose in the 5 anyway so I could just pop a couple in the 29 and monitor them. 

 

38 minutes ago, jayc said:

Crystal shrimps are also slightly bigger than cherries, and might fair better with an apisto. 

Yeah okay, I'll try them I think.

39 minutes ago, jayc said:

The larger shrimps like Typus, Amano and the filter feeders like Bamboo shrimp are probably the only ones that will hold their own against an apisto.

I didn't think we could get those here in Australia...? If we could then I would. Also not so sure about a filter feeder like riffles or bamboo as they can eat fry?

41 minutes ago, jayc said:

Your test of 5 each is probably a good idea. Start out small, and see how your fish react to possible prey around.

Can you move ALL your fish into one tank and free up one just for shrimp?

Well I already have the two male tts in the tank so they are used to there being prey in the tank, but not in larger quantities. 

Technically yeah I already have all my fish in one tank, but I'd really really like to move my pseudomugil luminatus (neon red blue eye rainbow) across to the 5, as the female looks like an embellished female endler and the male looks a bit like one of my ember tetras, so I would like them alone if I can. They also have suuuuuper tiny mouths, can barely even eat a small mozzie larvae, and that's when the prey is presented as food and barely moves. In terms of all shrimp in the 5 gal and none in the 29, I mentioned that earlier in this post. 

57 minutes ago, jayc said:

Remember, even if a shrimp can't fit into a fishes mouth, the fish can still pick at it's legs and extremities until the shrimp dies. it will still try to hunt the shrimps. I've had killie fish eat up all my black cherries in one tank, eventhough the killies grew up as fry with the shrimp. They just turned one day and decimated all my black shrimp. that's the issue with not having enough tanks for a species only tank. One killie even died with a shrimp stuck in it's mouth choked to death. Double whammie - both fish and shrimp dying. I like the analogy of Lions eating a wildebeest - the lions don't swallow it whole, they take chunks out of their prey. 

Yeah that's the thing I'm hoping to avoid, losing them all. It's a little better if the shrimp are reproducing and very slowly increasing with a few being picked off, but I guess that's what I'm going to have to deal with as a possibility if it isn't totally perfect. Which it won't be. I think I'll just try a few, and hope it's okay. If it doesn't work this time then I'll just not do shrimp in there.

Thanks a heap jayc!

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jayc
48 minutes ago, Crabby said:

I didn't think we could get those here in Australia...? If we could then I would. Also not so sure about a filter feeder like riffles or bamboo as they can eat fry

We can get Typus and Riffles here. Where, I dunno, just gotta keep an eye open for them.

What?! no, I've never heard of them eating other fry or shrimp. 

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Crabby

Ah okay, thanks. I've heard in some youtube videos that bamboo shrimp and blue wood shrimp can sometimes catch fry in their little fans, and eat them, but I guess that's probably a very uncommon occurance.

In terms of shrimp, you may have seen my recent post about breeding some - I think that's probably what I'll go with in this tank if I can successfully breed them and increase the hardness and pH in the tank. I might try out some crystals in the meantime... but probably not.

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Crabby

So huuuuuuuge update and great news! Firstly 2 endler females dropped fry, one on Monday the other on Tuesday, problem is I couldn't tell who was dropping at first so one of them dropped 50% in the tank! They're hiding well so far. And to complete 3 days straight of spawning action... guess what! My Apistogramma Nijssenni pair spawned today! Well, technically they spawned on the weekend but I didn't notice... came home this evening and saw my pseudomugil luminatus male sulking in a corner, so my eyes went straight to the apistos. Male was doing his usual 'strut my stuff' thing, but the female was guarding fry! At first I thought they were guppy fry and she was trying to eat them, but then I realised they were striped black and white, and much smaller... APISTO BEBES!!!

I am sooooo stoked to have bred them, and luckily I was monitoring parameters quite regularly for the endler fry, so I noticed what made them spawn - I dropped the pH below 6 (at least that's what I suspect, 6 is the low on my pH tester) with some almond leaves, and voila! Fry! There's probably more to it but quite simply dropping the pH below 6 when they are of age and in the right environment seems to be enough!!! 

Now I have a dilemma - do I leave the fry in the community tank and let the mum look after them? She's doing a really brilliant job so far, very territorial and showing them where to hide. I could also move them in a breeder box, or my 5 gal. Likely moving a male jap blue endler in the 5 as well though, so could be iffy there. The 5 really is perfect conditions for them right now, besides the hardness and pH. Lots of mulm, messy, and loads of plant cover. So there's that. Really the issue with that would be catching the teeny things! I'm leaning towards leaving them in there this first time, so I can observe how they behave and interact with their mother. After that I'll be fine to relocate any further batches of apisto fry for higher survival. Does anyone have an opinion on what would work best?

Will upload pics tomorrow. Hard to capture with just my phone; may need to break out the canon.

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I GOT FRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Crabby
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sdlTBfanUK

Wow, lots happening all at once! Hope it all continues to go well?

Hope you manage to get some photos to upload!

Simon

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jayc

Woo hoo!

Time to start hatching baby brine shrimps.

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