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incomplet

Time for a restart? Advice needed!

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incomplet

Hey everyone from SKF

I'm a long time lurker; but recently have gotten back into the shrimp keeping hobby in the past 12 months.

I'm after any constructive advice to help guide me in the right direction.

I've kept some blue bolts in a 1 foot cube which has been somewhat successful; however due to an ongoing infestation of numerous hitch-hikers. I've decided to start again.

There are some amphipods which are now breeding quite rapidly. Some worms which are swimming around in the aquarium, planaria which i've tried to keep at bay with No Planaria (the product doesn't work after only been used once or twice in 6 months, worked wonders the first time around).

I'm planning to fish out the blue bolts and acclimatize them into a bigger tank whilst i restart the tank.

I'm after any advice to see what is the best way to restart; my plans so far are as listed.

1) Remove Blue bolts and place in another tank
2) Siphon out all the gravel and bin it
3) Toss the media in the HOB; leave sponge filter in aquarium
4) Run the filter system for 1 week with a mix of bleach and water to fully rid of all the problems
5) Drain the tank and then place some new ADA soil into the base of the aquarium
6) Fill the tank with RO and seachem prime for another week
7) Empty tank and fill with RO remineralised with Salty Shrimp, new media in the HOB, sponge filter to remain the same.
8 ) undertake a 4-6 week fishless cycle  
9) Reintroduce 20% of the BB colony; wait 2 weeks
10) If all is well reintroduce the other 80% after.

Thinking it will take 6-8 weeks before i can start again.

Thoughts?

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sdlTBfanUK

Welcome newbie!

That sounds a lot of pests you have? I have used SLAqua Z1 which is meant for hydra and Planaria, and it worked for the hydra I had - not sure if  it is available where you are?

It sounds like you have done your research and know what to do? I would probably just buy everything new and start again so there is zero risk of a recurrence as you have several problems, and be slightly quicker and could go up a size of aquarium if that is something that interests you etc and as you state you are going to cycle it again, but I usually do take the easiest route, though that tends to be the costliest! I can't see any problems with your plan though you could just use tap water dechlorinated at stage 6 as that will be removed a week later? I would probably get new sponge for the filter as I expect that is really cheap as well and that can go in with the shrimps in the temporary tank to get some bacteria on ready (it can just float in the tank)! 

How many blue bolts do you currently have?

Simon

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jayc

You run the risk of reintroducing planaria into the new tank if you reuse your old media and sponge filter.

That's the only thing I would alter out of your list.

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incomplet
6 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Welcome newbie!

That sounds a lot of pests you have? I have used SLAqua Z1 which is meant for hydra and Planaria, and it worked for the hydra I had - not sure if  it is available where you are?

It sounds like you have done your research and know what to do? I would probably just buy everything new and start again so there is zero risk of a recurrence as you have several problems, and be slightly quicker and could go up a size of aquarium if that is something that interests you etc and as you state you are going to cycle it again, but I usually do take the easiest route, though that tends to be the costliest! I can't see any problems with your plan though you could just use tap water dechlorinated at stage 6 as that will be removed a week later? I would probably get new sponge for the filter as I expect that is really cheap as well and that can go in with the shrimps in the temporary tank to get some bacteria on ready (it can just float in the tank)! 

How many blue bolts do you currently have?

Simon

Hi Simon, 

Thanks for the warm welcome!

I've been using the GenChem No Planaria; honestly it worked so well the first time and most of the snail population/worms all disappeared and i tried to remove most of the larger rotting worms but didn't have a single casualty, they were Neocaridinas and i guess they were much hardier. But i did notice the packet wasn't sealed properly when I went back to use it a few months later. I haven't seen the SLAqua Z1 available in Australia before. 

I used to own a marine aquarium previously with fish only; then i changed after a few years to a planted aquarium with CO2 and then to a smaller set up with shrimp. Currently have three tanks (2 foot with RC Shrimp, 1 foot cube with BB and another 1 foot cube with CBS); I've never had to really restart a tank but would rather consult SKF then have a crack at it myself. I wasn't use if using bleach to rid of all the hitch hikers was the right method. And i have no idea what ratio of bleach to water I should be using for a 27L cube. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! 

Yeah i think RO water at stage 6 would be a bit over kill; especially with the time it takes to make the water. Thanks for that.

I've got about 40-50 with about 10 as breeding adults and the rest as juveniles still; I'm not a picky person when it comes to culling; I'm enjoying the hobby not as breeder to sell to others. I'd figure it would be good fun to pass the time, water changes and watching the little fellas shrimp around picking and prodding at things. Also i have no idea about the F1, cross breeding, taibees, taitibees, etc. just more interested in seeing the differing colors. 

I set up the CBS and BB tanks at the same time which also sit next to each other; the CBS population has exploded to about 100+ shrimp where the BB is a bit slower. Is that quite common; are BB more fragile? I thought about trying to have a got at PRL. Any advice?

Cheers, Dan

IMG_20190903_211215.jpg

IMG_20190412_220123.jpg

1 hour ago, jayc said:

You run the risk of reintroducing planaria into the new tank if you reuse your old media and sponge filter.

That's the only thing I would alter out of your list.

Hey jayc,

Thanks for that; phew lucky i bought a spare way nack. Yeha i have lots of denitrate left over.

Also hello fellow Sydney-Sider!

Dan

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jayc
14 minutes ago, incomplet said:

Also hello fellow Sydney-Sider!

✌️

 

15 minutes ago, incomplet said:

I wasn't use if using bleach to rid of all the hitch hikers was the right method.

Absolutely only use bleach as the last resort, with nothing in the tank. (6parts water to 1part bleach for future reference).

Even white vinegar is safer and probably just as effective for removal of planaria and worms. After you clear the old tank of gravel, give the glass a quick wipe with a vinegar soaked kitchen paper towel. Rinse and let dry in the sun.

Use vinegar if that wasn't clear.

 

Set up the new tank as desired.

If your other tanks are free of pests, you can use the filter media to seed this new tank. Wash the filter media in the water of the new tank. Yes, it will be dirty for a while, but you will have seeded it with millions of beneficial bacteria and probably cycle the new tank in a week.

 

25 minutes ago, incomplet said:

I thought about trying to have a got at PRL. Any advice?

PRL, real PRL, are pretty rare in Aus. 

They will demand a high price for them, so check the legitimacy of the PRL. Find out the PRL history.

Nice looking CRS is not the same as PRL

 

 

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incomplet
1 hour ago, jayc said:

Absolutely only use bleach as the last resort, with nothing in the tank. (6parts water to 1part bleach for future reference).

Even white vinegar is safer and probably just as effective for removal of planaria and worms. After you clear the old tank of gravel, give the glass a quick wipe with a vinegar soaked kitchen paper towel. Rinse and let dry in the sun.

Use vinegar if that wasn't clear.

I'm particularly worried about the amphipods which have become a bit of a plague and burrowed into the substrate. But i guess removing all the aquasoil should resolve the issues. Hence why i want to run a diluted bleach compound into the system to ensure everything is taken care of. Would I be able to do the same with vinegar; running a diluted solution of water and vinegar into the tank and this will eradicate the problems for a restart?

1 hour ago, jayc said:

If your other tanks are free of pests, you can use the filter media to seed this new tank. Wash the filter media in the water of the new tank. Yes, it will be dirty for a while, but you will have seeded it with millions of beneficial bacteria and probably cycle the new tank in a week.

I actually didn't think of this; I will definitely give this a go; i rinse out one of the dual sponges in the CBS tank with the aquarium water and use it to seed the tank. Great idea! Thanks @jayc

 

1 hour ago, jayc said:

PRL, real PRL, are pretty rare in Aus. 

They will demand a high price for them, so check the legitimacy of the PRL. Find out the PRL history.

Nice looking CRS is not the same as PRL

I was going to try a reputable breeder in QLD; but agree with you. 

Especially for someone very amateurish as me; i'd be easily fooled into buying the wrong type. 

Thanks again for the advice!

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jayc
25 minutes ago, incomplet said:

Would I be able to do the same with vinegar; running a diluted solution of water and vinegar into the tank and this will eradicate the problems for a restart?

You don't need to dilute vinegar. Full strength vinegar should kill any nasties. Just rinse everything well and leave it to dry in the sun. 

If you are reusing the gravel, boil it or pour boiling water on it.

If you were using planted substrate, replace it with new substrate.

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Grubs

Salt is good too.  Pool salt is very cheap.  If I want to remove snails from a tank I remove all the livestock drop the level of water to 30-50mm above the substrate.  I lie the sponges down on the shallow water and put in a few cups of salt to make a solution that is about 40-50ppt (more than sea water).  I keep the sponges in  and I stir up the gravel and wash the side of the tank down with the salty water. After a good overnight soak I siphon out the salty water and give one quick rinse, siphon again then refill the tank and start again.  Generally I throw the plants in the compost and get new pieces from a "clean" (snail free) tank.  I use an EC meter to check TDS so this is a quick way to check how well rinsed everything is. 

The advantage of vinager and salt over bleach is that both rinse away easily with fresh water.

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jayc
1 hour ago, Grubs said:

Salt is good too.

Good stuff Grubs, forgot about that.

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sdlTBfanUK

Love the shrimp pictured, fantastic!

I think that crystal shrimp are a bit easier than taiwan bee! I think they fit in between cherry and taiwan bee shrimp in their difficulty level!

PRL are a bit more difficult to keep than lower grade CRS but as you have mastered Blue bolts I am sure you would be ok! It sounds like you are doing well with the blue bolts and so I wouldn't worry about them not breeding as prolific as the CBS, many people complain because they are getting too many bloody shrimps (I was one) so 'less is more' as they say.

Simon

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incomplet
On 10/24/2019 at 12:27 PM, jayc said:

You don't need to dilute vinegar. Full strength vinegar should kill any nasties. Just rinse everything well and leave it to dry in the sun. 

If you are reusing the gravel, boil it or pour boiling water on it.

If you were using planted substrate, replace it with new substrate.

Just to update everyone; I was successful in removing all the blue bolts; turned out to be about 60. 

I put them into a breeder box, a few have since passed away (maybe about 5). But the rest look like they are doin okay.

I had to empty out the other cube (with CBS) and relocate them into the main tank as well in preparation of some PRL. I was able to source them from a reputable breeder. Looking forward to having them settle into the tank on the right which has been established for about 9 months.

I'm planning to drain the water out of the middle tank (it's been cycling with bleach for about 3 days) then refill and squeeze some of the filter sponges into the existing tank water to hopefully seed the filter.

I'll try to get some photos once they settle in.

IMG_20191030_203121.jpg

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jayc
1 hour ago, incomplet said:

(it's been cycling with bleach for about 3 days)

Hmmm, I thought we established that bleach = bad. 

Do you know how to clean it out?

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incomplet
14 minutes ago, jayc said:

Hmmm, I thought we established that bleach = bad. 

Do you know how to clean it out?

I'm going to drain 100%;

Scrub the tank with a toothbrush and then wipe down with vinegar.

Take off the motor on the HOB and re lube the o-ring and clean the impeller.

Then fill back up with tap water and seachem prime daily (i've got a full bottle) and cycle for another week.

I've only got the HOB filter with no media just to turn the water over. No sponge filters yet.

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jayc

you won't need to wipe it down with vinegar anymore. The bleach has now done the job of killing everything.

Instead, rinse it out thoroughly. But I still wouldn't trust just doing that.

Use your Prime undiluted and wipe the glass down. Dechlorinator helps neutralise bleach. Pay particular attention to the silicon joints.

So use it liberally to wash the bleach away. If your hob was in contact with the bleach, that needs to be washed out by the dechlorinator as well. Don't forget the pump in the hob. Open it up and clean inside the impeller area.

And no, it's not excessive. Any trace of bleach will ruin your tank. Better to be safe than see your tank suffer.

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