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supermansteve32

Trouble breeding CRS

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supermansteve32

Hi. I've had these CRS for about a year now and they get pregnant but usually the most that survive us one in each litter. Everything is normal and I do a 10%water change each week. They're all healthy just no offspring. 

The only thing i can think of is my tank size. It's 60 gallons and my previous setup was a 15 gallon and they seemed to be doing better then. I have a 306 fluval external filter and an air sponge filter.  I installed a chiller so the water stays cold. I have a splash bar for surface. I feed them blanched veggies all the time. 

I just don't know what I'm doing wrong, is it the tank size?

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ShrimpDesigns

Wouldn’t be the tank size. Are you running co2? What is your ph and tds? Are you using RO water?

 

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jayc
4 hours ago, supermansteve32 said:

they get pregnant but usually the most that survive us one in each litter

What are you feeding them, the shrimplets, that is?

 

Do you have a mesh prefilter on the fluval filter inlet?

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sdlTBfanUK

Have the shrimp deaths stopped now?

As JayC states, do you have the filter input covered so all the babies aren't getting sucked up? From years of reading about shrimps I believe that new borns don't move very far from the point they hatch so it is best to have lots of moss for them to hide in. The baby shrimp powder you are using in such a big tank may not be getting to the babies but they enjoy the cover of moss and the biofilm that grows on it!

You have been doing a lot of adjusting the water with the moving the tank and since so you may just need to wait a bit longer until everything has been steady for a bit longer, hopefully that's all it is and time should rectify that now you have cooling set up etc, so you should now be able to keep things stable. 

If you have a small tank not being used I would maybe set up a nursery tank (as small as 15L) and use water and stuff (even substrate) from the big tank so it is ready to use quicker. Transfer the berried female(s) to the nursery tank where It will be much easier to raise shrimplets in a smaller environment, as you know, and then they can be transferred to the big tank when they are adolescents! I started with a 15L tank and it was so easy to get and keep babies to the point that after about 2 months I had 100+ shrimplets of various sizes.............. I lost most of the really small ones when I transferred them to the bigger tank because they were too small to be transferred, but I wanted to close the small tank down, and anyway had way too many!

Simon

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supermansteve32

I do use RO water I treat with salty shrimp. I have all my filters with a sponge in the ends. I did some tests.

Ph 7.6 (may be higher, it was maxed on my test kit).

Nitrate 5-20 (couldn't pinpoint exact color)

 Nitrite 0

Ammonia 0

Gh 100-200  (7 drops )

Kh 3-4

TDS 145 (TDS meter) 

I have a lot of plants in the tank but no moss. I was feeding them some baby shrimp powder l few months back but my ammonia spiked

15681527697964451986418835965069.jpg

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supermansteve32

Here's some pictures. I have a lot of plants and the oxygen filter. 

If I did a nursery tank how could I cycle it faster? Could I use water from the tank setup and use the oxygen filter to keep some of the bacteria?

Any advice would help

Thanks everyone

15681535257992811085617002436524.jpg

1568153544520908514512521242027.jpg

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ShrimpDesigns

I believe something is up with your water RO water source. The ph from RO should be 7.0 and then reduced by any buffering material in your tank (it looks like you have buffering substrate? Oh should also be lower. 

 

Its either your RO water source or something in your tank or filter that is causing higher ph and kh levels

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jayc
6 hours ago, supermansteve32 said:

I do use RO water I treat with salty shrimp.

pH7.6 is too high for CRS.

What Salty Shrimp are you using? GH+ or GH/KH+ ?

You should be aiming for pH 6.5 for CRS.

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sdlTBfanUK

Those parameters are off target apart from the TDS, nitrite and nitrate!

As JayC are you using Gh+ and not GH/KH+? Gh+ is for Caridina and Gh/Kh+ is for neocaridina.

I would put on hold setting up a nursery tank as there is obviously something not right in the main tank and we now have something to go on, I suggested a nursery tank as I thought everything was fine with the main tank! I think you will get shrimplets surviving when you get the parameters right and settled down.

Those sponge filters are shrimp safe type so no problems there, and it looks like you have put a sponge on the INTAKE for the fluval 306!

There is no stone that I can see so I am a bit  bemused why your Ph is so high if you are using RO water and Gh+? RO water is usually below 7, mine is 5.5! I can't see anything in the tank that would cause the Ph to rise like that? The Gh is only a tiny bit up but Kh is way off (using Gh/Kh+ would explain that)?

With the number of shrimp in the tank you probably don't need to feed anything, there should be enough biofilm as it is lowly stocked.

I would test your RO water source before SS is added, everything should be 0, then we can go from there?

Simon

edit - I notice that the parameters 1 may 2019 were Ph6-6.4, TDS 214,, Gh 6.

It looks like you have an internal pump in the back right of the tank (electric cable), not sure what that is for but if it is a small pump is the intake for that pump covered with sponge? 

Edited by sdlTBfanUK
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supermansteve32

Hi. Thanks everyone. 

My RO water source I believe is fine. When I check the TDS on it it's always zero or 1. I'll check the pH in my RO source this afternoon. I don't have any rocks. And I'm using salty GH only. There's nothing in my filter other than a heavy metal remover I put in a while ago because I thought trace amounts of copper was an issue, I can take it out now because I doubt it's doing anything now. 

There is an internal pump on the right that pulls in the water for my chiller, it also has a sponge between the grill and the propeller. 

I'll check my RO and double check I'm not using gh/kh. I know I have some but I'm pretty sure I'm not using it. 

Also the driftwood in the tank is Malaysian driftwood. Not sure if that matters.

My substrate is fluval plant and shrimp stratum.

Edited by supermansteve32
Adding info
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supermansteve32

My substrate is Fluval Plant and Shrimp Stratum

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supermansteve32

Okay. I did 2 ph tests on the tank (about 3 inches below water line)  and they read 6.4

I thought maybe the water at bottom is different so I did a reading from the output side of the chiller. It read 7.6. I did two more samples at the chiller output and they read 6.4

Maybe the two 7.6 reading I got were done in beakers that were not clean? 

Reading on RO water (set for over a week) 6.4-6.6

Reading on treated RO water with Gh+ 6.4-6.6

I did confirm I'm using gh only. My package of gh-kh is unopened and sealed.

In the picture they're in order 3 inches from surface 1 &2

3,4 &5 from bottom of tank

6 RO

7 gh SS treated RO.

I guess you can't see in picture the yellows have a slight green tint

1568216116140620133949715445267.jpg

Edited by supermansteve32
Fix grammar error
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sdlTBfanUK

Those new readings look fine and pretty much as was back in May, and what you want them to be! I quite often get way out readings with the first attempt at a test (like the blue in the picture) even though everything is cleaned after previous tests??????

Can you redo the Kh test on the tank and if it is still high you should probably test the RO water again for Kh? You want Kh 0 - 2 range for caridina! I don't know where else the Kh would come from?

What is the rectangular thing in the centre of the tank that a shrimp is on just out of interest? I think it is fruit or veg but can't quite make it out?

The tank may just need to run steady for a bit longer after all the changes you have been doing and chiller etc! The other option would be to set up a nursery tank, do you have an old small one, and use water, substrate/sponge - everything from the big tank that you can so it would probably be safe to use in a week of running. It wouldn't need much substrate, just a thin layer, as it is a temporary place to keep the shrimplets until they get big enough? Do you have enough stuff to do that, I have a cupboard full of old tanks and boxes of stuff etc, I think most people who get into aquariums/fish/shrimp do.................. just give that some thought at this stage?

Simon

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supermansteve32

I'll test the kh of the RO water and tank when I get back home. 

I believe the thing your referring to is a piece of cucumber. 

I will say this about the chiller. Since I've installed it I don't think it's actually ever activated due to temp because I've kept my living room cooler ever since.

I'm just drawing a blank. When I moved my tank back in May there were easily 50+ in there. Now there's maybe 15, one baby. 

I started noticing them slowly die after the move and then the dying stopped but so did the breeding 

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sdlTBfanUK

It must be very frustrating and aside from the KH I can't see anything obviously wrong. As I say you may just have to leave it running steady and consistent for a while longer IF we can't find the problem.

IF we can't find the problem it would be worth setting up a small tank (especially if you have most of the stuff lying around anyway). Then when you see a female with some eggs put her in the nursery until the shrimplets hatch, then she can go back to the big tank. I have read often that they don't move around much when they are first born so if you had a small tank and got some moss and moss balls in it it would be much easier to feed them etc and keep a closer eye on them than you can practically in a huge tank! And given time for the big tank to run steadily and all is well I expect they will start breeding and the young surviving in the big tank in time!

At least the adults are surviving ok now so you are on the right route! Can't give up now......................

Simon

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supermansteve32

Retested the kh. 3 samples, only needed 1 drop to turn yellow but I put 3 drops in all and they just got more yellow.  So I guess my kh is 1

I guess I'll setup a nursery tank

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jayc
4 hours ago, supermansteve32 said:

my kh is 1

Yeah that means it's 1.

So the water parameters have turned out to be fairly normal. Shrimplet survival might just be due to a lack of biofilm and hidey spots.

Try adding more moss and leaf litter to the bottom of the tank.

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sdlTBfanUK

I agree with JayC that they prefer hiding places so moss and leaf litter would be a good idea most certainly! Kh is 0-1 so thats perfect (obviously you can't actually get a 0 reading with drop testers)! I see you have a couple of Indian almond leaves already, I use a lot of brown Oak leaves, do you have Oaks in Texas.................

I wonder whether in the deeper tank that maybe it has something to do with them being under greater pressure that causes the young problems - that is a real guess though????? Have you ever had breeding happen successfully in this tank?

There would be many advantages to having a nursery tank but it will be extra work and expense, though I have no doubt it would be worth it. It would be easier to feed and keep an eye on the young in a small tank. Also if you have some shrimps in a separate tank then if you  have a total wipe-out/disaster in one tank you will still have some shrimps to re-start! The smaller tank will be more vulnerable to heat in the Texas summer of course, though that won't be a problem until next year now, and by then you will at least know whether it is working?

Simon

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sdlTBfanUK

It may be worth watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeA-SKgnk5o

I have also been reading up and even traces of copper can interfere with breeding, are you sure there isn't any traces of that?

Caridina shrimp tend to stop breeding in winter and some people think this is to do with the barometric pressure. I had the shrimp slow/stop breeding in my 30L (though I was pleased about that at the time) but in the smaller original 15L tank they didn't stop breeding over the winter which was why I had to get the bigger tank.

Simon

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supermansteve32

I have had them breed  in this tank before but it's been a while. I thought it was the pressure of the tank but this tank isn't that much bigger than the 15 gallon- tall tank I had. 

I'm pretty sure there's no copper as I've added the packet that removes copper (I forget the name, it's a pouch that drops into the filter).

I went ahead and setup a 5 gallon nursery. I used the same water as the other tank, same substrate, same oxygen filter. Added a bunch of moss. 

58496.jpeg

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Grubs
On 9/11/2019 at 8:15 AM, supermansteve32 said:

If I did a nursery tank how could I cycle it faster? Could I use water from the tank setup and use the oxygen filter to keep some of the bacteria?

Any advice would help

 

I grab the sponges from the filter in the mature tank and put them into the new tank and give them a few squeezes to release bacteria laden muck into the water of the new tank.  Using those double sponges I also will swap one of the sponges from each pair -  so each tank has a mature sponge and a "virgin" sponge (this to me is the main reason I use these double sponges).  Yes the water in the new tank will go cloudy with muck for a day or so, but it will soon settle or get sucked into the clean sponge.  With a fresh setup the bacteria are more important than asthetics.  I've "insta-cycled" loads of tanks this way for fish breeding and for quarantine and never seen a nitrite spike.

If you have a big tank running it can be helpful to run a redundant second filter as a "hot-spare" so you have mature media ready to go at all times....but if space is a premium those double sponge filters do the same job.  There is an advantage to having the same filter in every tank and a couple spare in the cupboard.

Edited by Grubs
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supermansteve32

Thanks everyone. 

Grubs, I essentially did what you said. But I have double filtration on my bigger tank (I guess maybe triple if you count the splash bar). I just pt the mature oxygen filter into the new setup and drained 5 gallons from the old to the new and same with the substrate. Only thing new is the tank and some moss. I replaced the old oxygen filter in the big tank with a new one.

The females look good in yves tank so far! I've got three berried

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sdlTBfanUK

Looking good and as grubs says it should be ready really soon. It is a bit bigger than I was thinking but would do the job but maybe if this is for the specific purpose I would drop the water line to two thirds full before putting the berried femailes in. I was watching a lot of Marks youtube videos yesterday trying to get some clues and almost all his tanks are nowhere near filled to the top!

Hope this works out.

Simon

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supermansteve32

Hello everyone. 

Thought I'd update y'all. I stetup the breeder tank and put my 3 pregnant chicks in there. One is done breeding and I've put her back in the main tank, I've counted 9 babies in there. Ironically I've seen 2 new babies in the main tank, not sure where they came from bc I thought I got all the pregnant ones out.

Thanks for your help everyone

20190914_195135.jpg

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sdlTBfanUK

The shrimps don't all hatch at the same time so she may have had a couple of eggs you didn't see. Anyway, it does you a favour as you can check both tanks at the same time as to whether shrimplets do well and better in one over the other etc!

Great to hear all is going well!

Simon

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