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Steensj2004

Aquamaxx 17.1 Gallon Caridina Tank Build

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Steensj2004
5 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

I would leave restocking as the babies may restock anyway if the survive. I would just carry on as you are for a few weeks and see that everything settles down, you can't rush nature and just adding more may upset everything again. Personally, the approach I am taking at the moment is to almost ignore the tank for 2-3 weeks (I only have a couple of shrimp left anyway) to let nature sort itself out and settle down - also gives me more time to take a break from everything going tits up?  You have more shrimp left than me so you will need to do the regular routine stuff like weekly water change (if you do that) and feeding, less though as you have less shrimps etc.

A lot of things I have learnt is that being human and wanting everything sorted quickly just ends up upsetting everything, we need to be more patient and stop messing with things, especially if it isn't broken (I know yours was broken most likely as the shells were discolored). I should have left my tank alone and not tried to get the Ph up just because it would be better in theory (assuming of coarse that was what went wrong with mine)?

At the stage you are at I would leave well alone unless they continue to die, in which case another slow water change might be a good idea, but that's just the view of someone who has killed more shrimps than I want to admit too, on more than the one occasion over the years, there are lots of people on here with more experience than I.

The thing I (as a novice, especially with cycling) would be a little worried about is if you used this oil that kills bacteria, is the tank/filter cycled still, especially if there is still some oil in the tank or is it going to need time to 'cycle' again? Again, I would just give it time as it is and not think about restocking at this point?

Simon

 

Oh, I don’t mean right this second. I’m really asking at what point will I know if the  stock is stable from this mishap/disease before I add more. Not sure how to identify when the disease is gone completely. 
 

I’ve planned on introducing some tiger shrimp to possibly get some fancy tigers, but I would wait a month or more probably after this.  

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Crabby

I would personally wait at least a month, just for safety. The disease should either be getting worse or better by then. You noticed it was there by the colour on their shells, use that to see when it’s gone. And then wait at least a week after that for safety.

Also fancy tigers are really cool, I’ll be doing that soon as well.

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Steensj2004
31 minutes ago, Crabby said:

I would personally wait at least a month, just for safety. The disease should either be getting worse or better by then. You noticed it was there by the colour on their shells, use that to see when it’s gone. And then wait at least a week after that for safety.

Also fancy tigers are really cool, I’ll be doing that soon as well.

Sounds like solid advice.

 

well, the ones showing signs got a salt dip today. Everyone is active and happy, although they weren’t a fan of the salt dip. Any and all that showed the bad coloration got it. Lots of new babies scurrying around, so apparently the new baby drops  did OK. 
 

What would everyone consider perfect water parameters for these guys? I’ve heard a lot of variation in opinion,  but I trust people here more than elsewhere. 

Edited by Steensj2004
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jayc

Water parameters for caridina?

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sdlTBfanUK

Fabulous to hear that you have seen some of the babies, lets hope they do well and boost your stock - maybe you won't need to then restock the crystals and can just get the tigers!

I would aim for mid TDS 140-150 so that gives you more room for adjustment and it gives a more precise figure to work with than the other tests and is the easiest/quickest to do. Do the other tests occasionally to make sure they are all ok and 'IN THE ACCEPTABLE RANGE' but chasing perfection in every parameter will probably not work so as long as they are in the accepted range, and don't change when you do test them so that it is stable would be my recommendation!  If you are using remineraliser then that will be the right balance anyway?

Simon

Edited by sdlTBfanUK
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Steensj2004
2 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Fabulous to hear that you have seen some of the babies, lets hope they do well and boost your stock - maybe you won't need to then restock the crystals and can just get the tigers!

I would aim for mid TDS 140-150 so that gives you more room for adjustment and it gives a more precise figure to work with than the other tests and is the easiest/quickest to do. Do the other tests occasionally to make sure they are all ok and 'IN THE ACCEPTABLE RANGE' but chasing perfection in every parameter will probably not work so as long as they are in the accepted range, and don't change when you do test them so that it is stable would be my recommendation!  If you are using remineraliser then that will be the right balance anyway?

Simon

I gotcha. But I’m trying to figures what caused this disease. “Bad water parameters “ is one cause listed under chitinolytic disease in the disease thread. I’m wondering if it had something to do with my parameters, or, if it was something else.

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jayc

It might not be anything you have done. The shrimp could have been carriers of the bacteria from the place you bought them from.

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sdlTBfanUK

It did occur to me that you dropped the GH by about 2 in just over a week (if I remember correctly) so that may have stressed the shrimps as they were just getting used to the other parameters, and as previous you are best keeping things steady rather than fixating on all/everything perfect and any changes VERY VERY slow. But as JayC says, you hadn't got the shrimps that long ago so they may have come with the problem/bacteria infection. Of course it could be a bit of both?

Simon

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Steensj2004
32 minutes ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

It did occur to me that you dropped the GH by about 2 in just over a week (if I remember correctly) so that may have stressed the shrimps as they were just getting used to the other parameters, and as previous you are best keeping things steady rather than fixating on all/everything perfect and any changes VERY VERY slow. But as JayC says, you hadn't got the shrimps that long ago so they may have come with the problem/bacteria infection. Of course it could be a bit of both?

Simon

I dropped the GH by 1( 7 to 6) over the course of about 3 days.  I thought hag was slow enough, maybe not. Either way, hoping to see some improvement after the salt dip!

As thing  stand now, I found the water thread, and my levels are right in range. Shouldn’t have to change anything at this point. I did start remineralizing to what you recommended previously, so that should keep a stead GH/TDS in optimal range.

Edited by Steensj2004
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Steensj2004

Everything seems to be back to normal. Tried a  H2O2 dose today, tank reacted well, shrimp seem less sluggish and more reactive to food following the dose. Pumps off for an hour after the dose, per Mark from ,”Mark’s Shrimp Tanks” suggestion to me. No stressing or freaking out from the dose, and no deaths. Hopefully it helps.
 

Shells seem to look better on affected shrimp, but I could just be seeing what I want to see. No more deaths as of now, and I’m seeing plenty of tiny babies. I hope after the insanely high exposure to the oregano oil, salt dip, and h2O2 this crap dies! I hate it so much!

Edited by Steensj2004
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sdlTBfanUK

Hopefully that is the end of that episode and you can now just relax and watch the babies grow, and the discolour on some shells clears up with no more interference or treatments! Try not to freak out if you do get the very occasional shrimp death as they are ridiculously fragile and have been through a lot compared with their normal simple existence! Great to hear that their haven't been any deaths for a couple of days though!

Simon

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Steensj2004

Quick update: 

Everything seems to be settled back down. Parameters are as follows:

 

PH:6.4-6.5

TDS: 145

GH:5-6

KH:0-1

Temp: 71

 

I suppose this means I can let the tank go back to normal operation. Although, I haven’t seen as rapid of a shell improvement as I wished, I don’t know how quickly I should expect an improvement. Or what I’m looking for. Shells seem to have a shine to them again, but the color hasn’t improved?

Edited by Steensj2004
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sdlTBfanUK

Those parameters look spot on! I would just go back to normal operation, there probably is some of the oil still in the water but it may take a bit longer than re-dosing which you don't want to do, understandably, just give it time and monitor it for now? I assume there haven't been any more die so that's great!

Simon

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Steensj2004
5 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Those parameters look spot on! I would just go back to normal operation, there probably is some of the oil still in the water but it may take a bit longer than re-dosing which you don't want to do, understandably, just give it time and monitor it for now? I assume there haven't been any more die so that's great!

Simon

Thanks! Excited to get the population booming again. 

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sdlTBfanUK

As long as some adults survived the ordeal you should get them breeding soon, otherwise you may have a 3+ months wait for the babies to reach breeding age?

Simon 

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Steensj2004

Update: I’m not really seeing an improvement in the condition of shells. I don’t know what else to do. Very frustrating.

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sdlTBfanUK

I assume you haven't had any more die? If that is thee case I would just leave it for now and just keep an eye on it, frustrating as you say, maybe when they next moult it may get back to normal?

If you are feeling really brave you could try treating one or two with the shell marks as before (different dosage of coarse) but set up a separate hospital tank so you can only lose the couple you have in there anyway, rather than risk the others, especially the babies?

I think I would just see how it goes as it is though for now, and let the colony grow and settle down, unless you see multiple deaths or more getting the shell discolouration!

Simon

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beanbag
17 hours ago, Steensj2004 said:

Update: I’m not really seeing an improvement in the condition of shells. I don’t know what else to do. Very frustrating.

General anti-bacterial advice:

Drop temperatures to upper 60's

slowly drop pH to lower 6's with tannins from Indian Almond leaf or alder cone

Mark's shrimp tanks H2O2 dose every few days

Increase water change frequency + light gravel vac

Natural anti-biotic advice:

Look at the original post which mentions the oregano oil, which references a research paper.  That has a recommended dosage of x micro-grams of caravacol per gram of shrimp food.  Soak some shrimp food to the recommended dosage.

Modern science advice:

Nuke with anti-biotics

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Steensj2004
3 hours ago, beanbag said:

General anti-bacterial advice:

Drop temperatures to upper 60's

slowly drop pH to lower 6's with tannins from Indian Almond leaf or alder cone

Mark's shrimp tanks H2O2 dose every few days

Increase water change frequency + light gravel vac

Natural anti-biotic advice:

Look at the original post which mentions the oregano oil, which references a research paper.  That has a recommended dosage of x micro-grams of caravacol per gram of shrimp food.  Soak some shrimp food to the recommended dosage.

Modern science advice:

Nuke with anti-biotics

I’m not sure if you’ve read the thread, but:

-Oregano oil killed/nuked my shrimp. It was horrible and I refuse to put it into my tank, in any form, again.

-H2O2 dosing has already started per direct recommendation from Mark.

-Water Changes are already increased

-PH already sits in Low 6’s

-All shrimp were given a stout salt bath

 

I haven’t added any antibiotics, yet, as I’m not sure which one to try. 

Edited by Steensj2004
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beanbag
7 hours ago, Steensj2004 said:

I’m not sure if you’ve read the thread, but:

-Oregano oil killed/nuked my shrimp. It was horrible and I refuse to put it into my tank, in any form, again

 

Because you put it into the water at too high amount instead of in the food, like the research article suggests

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Steensj2004
55 minutes ago, beanbag said:

Because you put it into the water at too high amount instead of in the food, like the research article suggests

Chitinolytic Bacterial disease is external. Can you point me to the research that says  ingested oregano oil cures external bacterial disease? 
 

I also put the amount I was instructed to put into the water....

Edited by Steensj2004

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Steensj2004

Ok. So update:

 

Mixed 4.5mL of distilled water to one drop of oregano oil. Mixed well, and added (2 drops)to shrimp king(2) pellets. The problem is my shrimp never readily take to prepared foods.... so it’s a crap shoot. Temp lowered to 68f,  this is as low as my thermometer goes. Dosing 15 Ml of H202 every three days. 
 

What antibiotic could I use, and can it be used inside the display tank? 
 

Thanks in advance for the help.
 

 

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Steensj2004

Upon further review, I’m considering adding the oil water to BacterAE/ Shrimp Fit before adding. I assume it will take on/absorb some of the oil. This creates a much better feeding response in the shrimp. Thoughts?

 

Any advice on antibiotics?

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sdlTBfanUK

Do you have some sort of clear plastic container that you could float in the tank so that you can just put the shrimp you want to treat in that with the treatment for a while and not affect the others. I am sure the shrimp will eat food if there is nothing else for it to eat in the container if you leave the shrimp in the container for enough time for it to start scavenging!

I would be very careful after before, but I have never actually treated shrimps or fish, just tanks for hydra, but would definitely not want to treat a whole tank of inhabitants without  trying just one first!

Simon

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Steensj2004
5 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Do you have some sort of clear plastic container that you could float in the tank so that you can just put the shrimp you want to treat in that with the treatment for a while and not affect the others. I am sure the shrimp will eat food if there is nothing else for it to eat in the container if you leave the shrimp in the container for enough time for it to start scavenging!

I would be very careful after before, but I have never actually treated shrimps or fish, just tanks for hydra, but would definitely not want to treat a whole tank of inhabitants without  trying just one first!

Simon

I did the BacterAE deal. The problem is most of them seem to be affected, some worse than others. But that is a good idea. Maybe I’ll try that! Thanks for the advice. 
at this point, the only thing I haven’t tried is antibiotics. I’m not excited to add something like that to the tank, though. They did go after the BacterAE as usual, hopefully the oil got into some of those particles? 

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