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Sabertooth

Macropore andybody used it?, Hammered my TDS

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Sabertooth

Just wondering if anybody has used Macropore?

Macropore is a Macro-Porous Synthetic Polymer that controls Nitrates by filtering out nitrogenous wastes products and polishes water.

I thought this product sounded like a good idea to see if this stuff could do what it claimed, initially, I was looking at Purigen and when I went to my local aquarium shop they recommended Macropore as they said it is the same stuff and cheaper and the same as Purigen. When I got home last night washed it in its microporous bag as per the instructions and popped it in my tank and within about 10 minutes mt TDS went up 5PPM and within 2 hours up 50PPM. I must admit the water went sparkly clear but I was extremely concerned by this massive change in TDS so took it out until I could get some more advice. Hoping there is somebody here that may shed some light on why my TDS skyrocketed. I ended up doing a 25% water change and brought myTDS back to within 5TDS of where I started from before using macropore. If it is supposed to clean the water of organic wastes shouldn't the TDS go down or is it doing something else to the water chemistry that makes using the TDS pen useless? It looks like I have had no deaths this morning but concerned it may be bad to use with shrimp.

 

macropore.jpg

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sdlTBfanUK

There do seem to be a lot of these nitrate reducing products out there. I don't think I saw this one in the UK, but I got the tetra nitrateminus but haven't used it yet. I plan to do a large water change today first to see if that does the job, but if not will see if the tetra stuff works/helps? I saw the purigen.

I hope someone here can help/advise and I will be interested to see the results? Does this go into a bag and then into the filter? There is a JBK Nitratex available here, which looks similar and uses salts so I guess that would increase the TDS so that is interesting?

https://www.pro-shrimp.co.uk/aquarium-filter-media/1075-jbl-nitratex-nitrate-remover-4014162625373.html?search_query=nitrate&results=85

Good luck with this and hopefully it all works out, what is the nitrate reading you have, mine is about 25 so not too bad, wouldn't bother to change that if I was planning to just keep fish! 

Simon

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Sabertooth

looks like the same stuff in a different bag I just popped it into the microfilter bag rinsed it and threw it into the filter.

My nitrates nitrites are all 0, my ammonia is 0 and now creeping towards 0.25. i was using polyfilter to remove organics allowing me to extent my water changes to 2 weeks and though this stuff would work out cheaper as it is suppose to soak up fine organics. I was just feeding my shrimp hikari shrimp and crab cuisine on alternating days and thought i would trow the  glasgarten shrimp dinner and shrimp baby into the feeding cycle and are now seeing some surface scum on top of the water and ammonia creep. my polyfilter is brown within 2 days where i would get a week or more from just using Hikari products all the food gets eaten in an hour or two to the point where there is nothing left.

This stuff may be ok for fish but i am sure the massive TDS swing when using it is not safe for shrimp.

 

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sdlTBfanUK

I thought that looked the same as well so it probably is and just different names in different locations.

In a well balanced/cycled tank you shouldn't really have to play with the balance in the way you appear to be doing. Did you cycle the tank before adding the shrimps? Maybe you are overfeeding?

If you have the time, and are interested in trying to source the problem the product is aimed at fixing, it would be good if you can go into more details, tank size, occupants, parameters, water source, time scale, scaping, maintenance etc etc etc the more the better?

Simon

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Sabertooth

Tank is cycled, I try to do smaller feeds more frequently. It was surprising how much changing the food messed with the water. The tank in question is heavily planted with lots of mosses and floating plants and has not varied for months the only change was the food type. Quantity and frequency never changed.

Edited by Sabertooth
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kms

I think most of these are just marketing crap as to what reduces more or faster. Feed less, clean your tanks have plants and proper maintenance will cycle you tank.

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Sabertooth

I must admit it does polish the water a treat but whats the good of having a high clarity tank when all the occupants are dead. Glad i pulled it out when i did and not let it cycle over night. I'm just going to back off on the feeding let everything settle down and work out a new feeding schedule where i can utilize these new foods to the degree where it wont mess with the tank.

I would still love to know how this product works and effect on TDS, maybe you need to leave it in and let is run the course eg. TDS goes up for a while, stabilises and then lowers again. maybe you can only use it for fish not inverterbrate. The shop i bought it from said it was safe to use for shrimp but i am not so sure now. 14 hours have passed and i have seen no deaths and only 1 molt in the tank and that i assume was caused by the water change. I am not keen to try it in any tanks fish or shrimp at this stage until somebody gives me the confidence of the precise way it can be used safely.

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sdlTBfanUK

It was good that you kept such a close eye on the product and the parameters as who knows where that would have taken you! Shrimps are a lot more fragile than fish tend to be, so it may be that the product isn't suitable for invertebrates? I guess, as you state, it may have been alright once it had settled down though?

I picked the tetra alternative as it goes into the tank as I don't use filters that you can add the other filter media types too, but I did wonder when I saw it was salts as to how that would work with shrimps? Hopefully someone who has tried it will let us know!

I am pleased that you haven't lost any shrimps and understand your concerns, I would have taken the same action as you and removed it! As you say, the water change usually triggers moulting!

Simon

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Sabertooth

Looks like my API test kit is faulty i just did a test on my tap, RO water and at the same time my tank water and they  have the same reading being a slightly yellowy green swaying towards the 0.25 reading. can anybody recommend a test kit that reads accurately. the surface skum must just be from the oils released in the new foods however do not effecting my tank water.

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jayc

Just caught up reading this. Been busy at work recently.

I have Macropore. It's the Australian equivalent to Purigen, except a bit cheaper.

And to the sceptics ... it actually works in reducing and removing Nitrates.

BUT I have never tested to see if it increases TDS. I have never had cause to think my TDS was rising due to Macropore.  

New macropore doesnt release anything. Old Macropore that is oversaturated with the minerals that it has absorbed might stop absorbing. But it should not release anything. At least I don't think so. Need to do more research.

 

@Sabertooth, run a test in a cup with a handful of Macropore and RO water. See if the TDS rises significantly.

I will run the same test this weekend.

Mine is old stock, as I don't use it often, only when I need to reduce Nitrate fast. I control Nitrate in other ways where possible.

 

Purigen is recharged by bleach.

Macropore is much easier and is recharged by salt. - are you sure this is new macropore? and not recharged stock? I guess we will find out from tests this weekend.

 

 

<edit> - well seems I was wrong about it not releasing anything.

"this product uses sodium exchange" - Graham

So yep, it macropore releases sodium and absorbs nitrogenous waste.

 

Edited by jayc
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Sabertooth

Have you been using this in your shrimp tanks jayc? Its brand new macropore, it was like $20 for 500g. I dont thing I would recharge it anyway.  I will do a test as well since it is all payed for and I cant return it and see where it goes. Cant see this product being great for the shrimping community if you are trying to stop the high nitrates killing your shrimp and then the TDS shock kills them anyway. Has to be bad for freshwater fishes as well how can they get away with selling such a product.

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Sabertooth

I just dosed 100ml of tank water and 1 teaspoon from my blue dream shrimp tank the TDS started at 232TDS and an hour later the TDS was at 722. dangerous stuff.

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sdlTBfanUK

Oh wow! That is a bit scarey!

Thank goodness you noticed early in the tank and removed it?

If it is the same as purigen does that mean that would do the same then? I am hoping I don't need to use the tetra nitrateminus but will find that out later today - it says that it may take a few weeks to work anyway?

Hopefully the test kit is faulty which would mean all 3 are at 0 and you are ok!

Simon

Edited by sdlTBfanUK

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Sabertooth

after 2.5 hours its is now 703 so its coming down, i will leave it over night and see what i have in the morning. maybe 1 teaspoon per 100ml is an too concentrated does not look like much in the bottom of the glass. if you backed off the quantity per volume it possibly would not be quite the TDS shock we see here. it says on the packet 500ml of macropore treats 2400litres so maybe the dosage is 4.8ml per litre. Its a solid seems stupid  they go by ml and not g. The directions are really crappy and ambiguous.  Seachem the bag is pre filled with purigen which is 100ml per treats 1000L and they sell this in presealed bags to just throw in your filter they have videos on youtube putting this stuff in small 10gallon tanks. I would have put no where near 182ml of the volume of this stuff in my 38 litre tank and it was scary.

Edited by Sabertooth
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Sabertooth

Feel free to jump in if you have used this product. The only other question i would ask is when you do your rinse and you add your ph down to your rinse what concentrations are you doing it in?. my rinse was half a teaspoon of API ph down in about 2 litres of water is this too dilute or ok, soaked for around 3 hours, i then rinsed it again in tap water with seachem prime?

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Sabertooth

Woke up this morning and and yes i am in morning finding 5 dead taiwan bees in the bottom of the tank.with 2 of them being berried females  so i am a bit shitty. This product is going in the bin and is no longer welcome in my house.

Edited by Sabertooth
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jayc

Okay my tests also verify that Macropore and I dare say the same for Purigen, will indeed raise TDS.

250ml of RO water in a cup with one heaped teaspoon of macropore raised TDS by 128 immediately (within 1minute of adding it to the water).

I will leave it for a while and retest TDS later.

 

However, Macropore does work in removing Nitrates. So the choice is up to the user - Reduce Nitrate and risk TDS or do nothing and risk high nitrates.

Really, the best option is Water Changes. Looks like there is still no substitute for the good ole water change.

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jayc

5 hours later and TDS has topped out at 148 TDS. - That's 1 heaped teaspoon of Macropore in 250ml of RO water.

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Sabertooth

Seems it is possibly nasty stuff for shrimps and sensitive freshwater fish then, this should be added to the packaging.  Thanks for your confirmation as well jayc. You would assume by the written directions that you can use any amount per volume of water. I don't think the average person has TDS pens and would normally only either have basic test chemicals or be using use test strips. The average person would step back in wonder looking an the ultra clear tank and see their tests chemical or strip results looking marvelous not knowing their freshwater critters have now been converted to marine. I must admit i did rinse the water in my mouth during my test and it it not taste saline, I read articles that TDS is a poor measure of water quality but to raise TDS you have to add something back in for it to go up, so it has to be salt or some other chemicals from the polymers.

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sdlTBfanUK

Really sorry to hear that you have lost more shrimps overnight! The safest way to alter TDS with shrimps is using RO water and the related remineralising shrimp product.

I hope you don't mind me throwing these out there but I want to learn also and have gone back over this thread:-

If you were using Polyfilter to remove organics, and then stopped using it wouldn't that cause it to go out of balance and need cycling again?

It appears that you had ammonia rather than nitrate if I am reading correctly, were you hoping this product would clear that?

As JayC states, usually nitrates can be controlled with largish water changes, which is easy enough in smaller tanks?

I hope any remaining shrimp in that tank survive.

Simon

 

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jayc
3 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

so it has to be salt

It's definitely Sodium (aka salt), but you wont be able to taste it at these levels. You can't taste salt until about 500 TDS. Sea water is over 1000 TDS.

Edited by jayc
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beanbag

Hello,

From the little bit of reading I did, Macropore is NOT the same as Purigen.

Purigen is a scavenging resin, which means that stuff goes in, nothing comes out.  It did not raise the TDS when I used it in my tank.

Macropore is an ion exchange resin, meaning that stuff goes in, salt comes out.  This is why Macropore can be recharged with salt, and Purigen cannot.

Sorry, wish I saw this thread earlier.

Edited by beanbag
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Sabertooth
6 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

Really sorry to hear that you have lost more shrimps overnight! The safest way to alter TDS with shrimps is using RO water and the related remineralising shrimp product.

I hope you don't mind me throwing these out there but I want to learn also and have gone back over this thread:-

If you were using Polyfilter to remove organics, and then stopped using it wouldn't that cause it to go out of balance and need cycling again?

It appears that you had ammonia rather than nitrate if I am reading correctly, were you hoping this product would clear that?

As JayC states, usually nitrates can be controlled with largish water changes, which is easy enough in smaller tanks?

I hope any remaining shrimp in that tank survive.

Simon

 

Happy to hear any feedback. my tank is cycled the ammonia test kit i  was using seems inaccurate and i believe it is a 0 ammonia reading even thought the test is still a light yellowy green. I only use the polyfilter to extend my time between water changes and maintain a stable environment. I was hoping this product would work out cheaper in the long run and was going to perform the same as i was starting to get more muck in my water from the new foods and the polyfilter was brown within a week and normally i would get 2 weeks or more out of the polyfilter. I dont use a whole pad just cut it into strips and run it under the spraybars. Poly cost me about $25/every two months and if this product worked would be maybe quarter of the price. I find my TDS fluctuation over 2 weeks from the baseline may be max 5TDS running polyfilter and the water change was only really to try force the shrimp to molt, speed up their growth and  and get more berried shrimp.  I have been following this routine for 6 months and have had no fluctuation in my water perimeters and no deaths up until now.

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sdlTBfanUK

I had a quick look at my suppliers website when I saw Beanbag reply. The Purigen says it removes Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate whereas the other only says nitrate, so IF (and I understand you now think there isn't any anyway) there was some ammonia it probably would have worked ok with the Purigen?

I don't generally trust aquarium staff unless I know them, usually they are young and inexperienced and as such they probably meant 'it does the same' instead of 'is the same as', if they even knew that is! Just my experience as an older chap observing youth???

I don't actually understand how this all works though as I would have thought if you remove ammonia/nitrite/nitrate then surely the tank is uncycled, but as long as you keep using the product it doesn't matter as I suppose the product eliminates/replaces that (as long as the product keeps working)??

I just squeeze the filter sponges in tank water once a week which takes a minute at most each and amazing how brown the old tank water goes after the sponges are rinsed in it, but that seems to be sufficient?

Simon

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beanbag
On 6/27/2019 at 2:11 AM, Sabertooth said:

 

My nitrates nitrites are all 0, my ammonia is 0 and now creeping towards 0.25. i was using polyfilter to remove organics allowing me to extent my water changes to 2 weeks and though this stuff would work out cheaper as it is suppose to soak up fine organics. I was just feeding my shrimp hikari shrimp and crab cuisine on alternating days and thought i would trow the  glasgarten shrimp dinner and shrimp baby into the feeding cycle and are now seeing some surface scum on top of the water and ammonia creep.

 

Could be coincidence - I recently had a tank disaster, probably caused by overfeeding pollution, and I had also started using the Shrimp Baby product.  I think the little bits get everywhere and if they aren't all eaten, start fouling the water.

Edited by beanbag
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