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richiep

Crystal reds/black bee not breeding

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richiep

I have a 220ltr tank been running 3 years a while ago they stopped breeding that's CRS &black bee in the same tank so I separated black bee and within two months the bl/bee are breeding yet the big tank still nothing water is ph6.5 gh5 kh1 temperature 23c those readings are the same in the 10ltr black bee, I do 15% water changes in all my shrimp tanks, I'm wondering should I do a big water change in the 220ltsi can't for the life of me think of what else to do, they have not bread for 6 months

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Kingo

I had the same thing happen for my 160litre planted tank. I wouldn’t call it heavily planted either. 50793827-7576-44B1-AABF-32485581B278.thumb.jpeg.ae4bb07893aa0d04a45d07b2a8fa65c5.jpegRunning approx 1.5 years with similar params. (Slightly lower TDS and PH). Actually planning to pull out 90% of plants soon in an attempt to get the tank back to bee friendly. Only keeping Mischlings though. 

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richiep

Do you think a heavily planted tank could be an issue

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sdlTBfanUK

That tank looks lovely as it is and not over planted, be a shame to remove all the plants and I doubt that will benefit the shrimps.

I would think as you both have large tanks and had the same parameters and experiences that it is likely down to the large tanks and maybe over-wintering is a requirement of a bigger setup!

Simon

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beanbag

I hope u guys can figure out what the issue is and report back.  I actually want my shrimp to stop breeding since I won't know what to do with all on them in my little 3 gal tank.

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richiep

Well beanbag I moved CBS from the big tank to a 10g and within two month babies everywhere I'm trying to upload a photo but keep getting file 200 message

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sdlTBfanUK
13 minutes ago, beanbag said:

I hope u guys can figure out what the issue is and report back.  I actually want my shrimp to stop breeding since I won't know what to do with all on them in my little 3 gal tank.

I remember this from last year. I have had my shrimps (caridina) for 2 winters. The first winter in the 15L they reproduced constantly but when I moved them to the 35L they stopped reproducing over the 3 winter months. I was quite pleased as I had been culling them up to that point but could have a break from that then. I may have to restart culling soon but it is good to know that it should stop again next winter !

Simon

9 minutes ago, richiep said:

Well beanbag I moved CBS from the big tank to a 10g and within two month babies everywhere I'm trying to upload a photo but keep getting file 200 message

I think the photo has to be less than 1MB to get it on here, I always reduce the file size and it works then!

Simon

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beanbag
8 minutes ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

I remember this from last year. I have had my shrimps (caridina) for 2 winters. The first winter in the 15L they reproduced constantly but when I moved them to the 35L they stopped reproducing over the 3 winter months. I was quite pleased as I had been culling them up to that point but could have a break from that then. I may have to restart culling soon but it is good to know that it should stop again next winter !

Do you remember what was the temperature in the tank during winter?

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richiep

mine are computerised 22.5c with a +- 1c ether side but never fall below 22.5c, fo me to get a pic below 1mb this is what im left with dosnt realy show the shrimp in there, looking at beanbag his is a full image

WIN_20190426_13_46_12_Pro_LI (4).jpg

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sdlTBfanUK
32 minutes ago, beanbag said:

Do you remember what was the temperature in the tank during winter?

The heater is always set at the same and as it is cold here over winter I don't actually use a thermometer as just touching the glass feels warm so I know the heater is working. When I do bother to check it is 23 degrees.

I sent a link to a video on 'richiep' this morning and someone had commented on it stating that they slowly turn down (18) the heater for about a month and then turn it back up slowly (23) and that works for them, I assume thus tricking the shrimps that it has been winter . I have pasted it below:

Hey ???, here is my tip: I don't know what is in English but i think the word is overwinter or artificial winter. (Anyone knows the correct word please reply me 🙂 Firstly the heat is gradually reduced from 22-23 degrees to 18 degrees in 10-15 days. So the shrimp will think that it is winter. They'll slow down and stagnate. Wait for 3-4 weeks at this temperature. Keep doing regular water changes during this period by observing the temperature. Then gradually raise the temperature to 22 degrees in 10-15 days. Now shrimp think that is winter is over and spring has came. At this point keep your KH at 0. This is important i think because this is the value of the rainwater in the natural environment of shrimps which encouraging them to breed. This method worked for me both Neocaridina and Caridina. I hope it works for you.

Simon

40 minutes ago, richiep said:

mine are computerised 22.5c with a +- 1c ether side but never fall below 22.5c, fo me to get a pic below 1mb this is what im left with dosnt realy show the shrimp in there, looking at beanbag his is a full image

WIN_20190426_13_46_12_Pro_LI (4).jpg

Definitely not a shortage of shrimps there, and great colour!

Simon

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richiep

thats very interesting simon, and thats nothing to whats in the tank what your looking at there are the rings on the sponge i had to come down small to post it

Edited by richiep

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sdlTBfanUK

If you have a spare small tank I think I would try both the turning down the temperature on the big tank and setting up the smaller and do some selective breeding in that. If the turning down the temp works on the tank then I guess you just need to do that each winter.

I know he says it works for neocaridina and caridina, but I don't think neocardina stop breeding in winter anyway, though I may be wrong, but my cherry shrimp never stop breeding in the fish tank at any time of year.

Simon

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sdlTBfanUK
1 hour ago, beanbag said:

Do you remember what was the temperature in the tank during winter?

Did you try reducing the temperature on your tank, I think you mentioned that before if my memory is any good. Depending where you are in California though that may be quite difficult and need a chiller I guess?

Simon

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richiep

i have a small tank i was holding it for my black rose in my avatar but they will have to wait they are in with the CBS and have not bred so ill put some CRS in there and see what happens. 

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sdlTBfanUK
44 minutes ago, richiep said:

i have a small tank i was holding it for my black rose in my avatar but they will have to wait they are in with the CBS and have not bred so ill put some CRS in there and see what happens. 

That sounds a great idea and if you start lowering the temperature on the larger tank slowly now hopefully that will 'winter' the tank just in time for our summer, so you can test that out and know that for next winter if that works and is necessary with the larger tank. At least this route is also not needing a lot of work and changes so it all makes a lot of sense. 

Hopefully you will keep us informed about how it is all going?

Simom

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richiep

i certinaly will there's proberbly people reading this as confused as we were at the start but at least therer something to go on with the big tank, as for the smaller ones i don't why they've kept breeding. the jury will still be out for a while yet,

WIN_20190426_16_39_53_Pro_LI.jpg

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sdlTBfanUK

Great you got the picture uploaded. I think the babies will love all that moss to hide in and feel safe!

I expect few people, other than professional breeders, keep shrimp in large tanks so this issue may not happen very often but it will be interesting to try and find out? And, as you say, someone else may have this come up in the future and it was interesting that someone else had the same happen in a 160L, so another fairly large (for shrimp) tank?

I did a lot of researching on this today and most say you have to keep everything 'STABLE' and consistent  which I agree with, BUT the winter thing makes some sense as there isn't ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET that has the same temperature 365 days a year? As with changing water replicates rain and triggers moulting/mating in nature! I think you have to consider what they would experience in nature?

Simon

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jayc

A 3yr old  tank, without additional minerals, has probably run out of something, especially if the shrimp have to compete with the minerals plants absorb.

Try a complete water change and remineralise it properly. 

That means you will need to reacclimate the shrimp.

 

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Kingo

Hey @jayc what do you mean by properly? I always remineralise w/salty shrimp and add mineral powder at water changes at recommended dose. Is there something else I should be doing?

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richiep

I have tanks older than this one and no problems they all get high mineral and protein diet as well as weekly RO water change  and to try and catch over 500 shrimp and re acclimate is impossible, when you say reminerilise properly says to me I'm doing it wrong which I dont understand, I've been breeding shrimp for 10 years successfully come across a problem and told basically I'm doing it wrong 

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sdlTBfanUK
4 minutes ago, richiep said:

I have tanks older than this one and no problems they all get high mineral and protein diet as well as weekly RO water change  and to try and catch over 500 shrimp and re acclimate is impossible, when you say reminerilise properly says to me I'm doing it wrong which I dont understand, I've been breeding shrimp for 10 years successfully come across a problem and told basically I'm doing it wrong 

I don't think JayC is saying you aren't mineralising correct, as he couldn't know that anyway. I just think he meant to remineralise at the correct level as probably a lot of the minerals may have depleted over time and others may have gone up so the TDS figure looks right but the balance is probably out of alignment and the best way to do that is a complete water change with NEW remineralised water to bring the balance back to the best for the shrimps!

That is what I got from JayC comment anyway? It wasn't anything directed at you personally?

I think I would stick with using the small tank for selective breeding and try wintering as we discussed. Maybe do some large water changes to bring the minerals back into line as well. Timing wise that makes sense as you are trying to cool the tank slowly as well. I will confess that a feeling of dread came over me that at some stage resetting the tank and changing all the water etc etc will need to happen at some point, hopefully years away............. as you say it is an immense job and the bigger the tank the bigger the headache!

Simon

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richiep

so how dose anyone know what the correct minerials are and whats lost if thats the case as shrimp should start to have moult issues if thats wrong, up until a few weeks ago i did 30% water changes ive never come across anyony who dose 100% water changes and reaccliamitse their shrimp, and ive never read it excpt in the case of disease, so is this a new thing that after 3years your tanks are going to go this way, my feeding plays a very important part in my shrimp keeping and they get the best in minerails and protien but it seems this is now not enough,

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sdlTBfanUK

The million dollar question? I guess that is where the specific shrimp products come in, Gh+ that you use with water changes, and they must have been developed to give the shrimps what they need.

Wow, 30% of water in a 220L tank is a lot of water, I don't even want to think about lugging all that water about? I would guess that that is sufficient to top up the minerals each time, I would certainly hope so anyway! If you have 500 shrimps already in the tank then the tank may already be at/close to its maximum occupancy? The shrimp haven't been in this same tank for 3 years though have they? What was in there before? I assume it  has had RO remineralised water in there for the 3 years?

Simon

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kms

@richiep

When you put the new water into the shrimp tank with RO water, do you mineralized the water before putting in to the tank or just mineralized the water one in the tank.

Edited by kms

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richiep

simon the shrimp have been in there from the start with ro water nothing else as ever lived in it, as for maximum occupancy i read between the lines on that one, i took 8 dozen out of a 35ltr tank 4 weeks later took another 4doz out and still leaving as much in the tank, this tank is the best breeder i have its been runnung 4 years and i just have to keep taking them out,

kms all my tanks are ro water they are all delt with seperatly gh/kh ph done on each tank then reminerilised in a bucket before adding, a slight adjustment normally needed as tds may go up 5 points during the week,  

Edited by richiep

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  • Posts

    • jayc
      It sounds about right for GH6 (6 drops is roughly 120 TDS). Those GH test kits are not the most accurate. And RO water reading of 3 is not unreasonable. I don't know why you would have been reading 240TDS last week and now it's a 100 points lower. I would suggest, not changing water parameter with a water change for a week, then see where it is at. Change if it gets close to 200 (say around 180-190). Let's give the tank some stability by not changing anything for a while.
    • supermansteve32
      I checked my TDS meter and it reads 3 on RO water and today my TDS in my tank is 133. I did a test with API and it took 6 drops so that's around 100 TDS.  I had 2 adolescents die overnight.  Should I only change water when it's over 200 TDS or should i continue with the 10% every week?  Thanks
    • supermansteve32
      I'll check it when I get off work tonight. I'll check my reader against pure RO water & tap, and do a GH test.  I'll also clean my TDS meter.  Thanks for your help everyone. 
    • beanbag
      If u have a GH test kit, then u can do a cross check, where each GH value in RO water made with SS equals about 20 ppm, e.g. GH 6 water will give you about 120 ppm.
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Are you sure the new reading is correct as that sounds unlikely, and I would have thought you would have had shrimps dying  with that sort of decrease. Do you have a second way of checking the TDS, or can you take a sample to a fish shop for them to test? I can't think of any reason that would happen or even heard of that before? Even if you had put pure RO water in last water change it wouldn't have dropped that far! If it is currently the TDS113 it will make adjusting easy as you just mix the water to the desired end TDS figure (140ish) and it will slowly go up to that. Simon
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