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joemjd9

Blue Bolt - 30cm Cube tank for a beginner

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joemjd9

Hello all,

I am new to this forum and new to keeping Cardinia shrimp. I have successfully kept RCS (Neos) in the past but would like to explore the Cardinia world.

While I have not locked down the type of cardinia, I really like how the lower grades of blue bolts look. 

I currently have 30cm Low Iron glass Cube tank. Before I go ahead and invest the things needed to support the 30cm cube tank with cardinia, I wanted to ask the first question on whether a 30cm tank (about 27litres) would be a good starting tank for a beginner/lowkey setup.

Thank you very much in advance.

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jayc

Hi @joemjd9

Welcome to SKFA.

A 30cm tank is ok for starting out with a small population,  but of course a 60cm tank would be even better.  You will still be fine with a 30cm tank. Just take care with cycling the tank before adding any shrimp,  and give them a consistent environment (ie. Water parameters).

Get a good quality plant substrate and that will help keep pH and GH consistent. 

Any other questions,  just ask . 

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joemjd9

Hi jayc,

Thank you very much for the quick reply.

I plan to keep ADA Amazonia since I could not find the Black Earth substrate in recent times.

In terms of the quantity of ADA to use, for a 30cm tank, does 2-3cm of substrate suffice to ensure a good buffering capacity for 1-2years. What do you guys do, when the soil loses it buffer capacity? Do you replace the entire substrate with the new soil (taking the right precautions for the shrimp during the change).

Edited by joemjd9

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jayc
17 minutes ago, joemjd9 said:

In terms of the quantity of ADA to use, for a 30cm tank, does 2-3cm of substrate suffice to ensure a good buffering capacity for 1-2years.

ADA can last much more than 2 years if you use RO or even rain water and remineralise it with those Calcium/Magnesium mixes. I have ADA tanks that buffered for 5 years.

2-3cm might be too much for a 30cm tank. It might buffer pH too low. Start with no more than 2cm (maybe even 1.5cm), then check pH after cycling is complete. It's easier to add more substrate than to remove it.

 

 

29 minutes ago, joemjd9 said:

What do you guys do, when the soil loses it buffer capacity?

Yes, change it out completely. Perfect time for a complete tank clean and overhaul (except the filter). But as I mentioned, ADA will last a few years without the need for changing.

The tank should bounce back relatively quickly if you don't clean or change the filter and media.

Keep the filter running and recirculating into a bucket of old tank water to keep the bacteria alive while you clean out the tank and swap substrate. Of course, you have to remove all the shrimp in the tank first.

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joemjd9
25 minutes ago, jayc said:

ADA can last much more than 2 years if you use RO or even rain water 

That sounds great. Ill happily take 2-5years. I plan on using an RODI filter and remineralise with Salty Shrimp.

27 minutes ago, jayc said:

2-3cm might be too much for a 30cm tank.

Thats even better, i dont have to buy the larger bag. Until it get the multi tank sydrome 🙂

Thank you very much for this information. 

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sdlTBfanUK

I started Taiwan Bees in a 15L tank (12L actual shrimp tank), so was under 30cm and had no problems. As  JayC says RO water remineralised is important with Caridina shrimp. They are a lot more sensitive than neocaridina.

The 'problem' with a small tank as I found out, is that if it works you will soon be over-run with shrimps as I had about 100 in about 3 months or so, from putting about 10 adult shrimp in the tank. It may be worth thinking about a different tank from the start as it will save a lot of work/time/money in the long run? If you do think about a change of tank I would go with one which has more horizontal space than height, as shrimps spend most time wandering at the bottom of the tank so the height is unnecessary and a bit of a waste when the same capacity can give you more base area.

Looking forward to hearing how t all goes.

Simon

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jayc

Good advice  from our new mod 

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joemjd9
16 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

It may be worth thinking about a different tank from the start as it will save a lot of work/time/money in the long run?

Thank you very much Simon.

I have certainly thought about the idea of secondary tanks. But i wanted to test out the Cardinia waters first. If they do capture my interest, I plan to seek my boss (aka wife) to approve the shrimp tank rack idea *fingers crossed*

I have been going through this forum and the Shrimpspot forum to gain as much knowledge as I can to get a good start.

Thank you again for your message. Every little bit helps.

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sdlTBfanUK

Having multiple tanks and a tank rack may be where you want to go eventually but that is probably for the future?

If you want to test out the cardina you may want to go the route I did in that having a mix of shrimps colour and pattern in one tank is certainly more interesting to look at than 10 tanks with single/pattern, and I keep getting new ones that I didn't have before, even the boss should like them!!!!! It is obviously a lot cheaper and takes up a lot less time and space as well. I got the 35L dennerle scapers tank (used 3L of substrate) and it is 40cm x 32cm x 28cm and it has 28L of water (my measuring jug is a cheap one so maybe inaccurate, but the tank isn't filled to the brim and stuff in the tank takes up some space). It would give you an extra 10cm x 32cm (plus 2cm x 30cm) which to shrimps is quite a lot, not that I am saying you should necessarily get this tank but just as an example of how less height (which isn't needed for shrimps) in a tank can make a lot of difference to the floor area of a 'similar' capacity tank, but you may think it is too much money for such a small increase, but obviously there is a whole range of other tank choices out there.I assume you would use the heater/light/filter etc from the old tank if you weren't going too much larger? And, of coarse, you can just stick with the tank you have and that should still work out fine for a starter/tester tank?

If you want to see the mix then just click on gallery/New images and scroll down. You should show the boss and I a sure it will swing it in your favour!

I don't think you should have any problems with caridina if you are sticking with remineralised RO water and proper shrimp products from the very start. It took me years to get to where I am now but I think ALL the problems I had were because I was trying to use 'tapwater', as soon as I started with RO remineralised no problems whatsoever.

Any other specifics/question feel free to ask away.

Simon

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kms

I started out with a 30cm tank, and it's my only shrimp tank, started of about November with Neo's and added a few Taiwan bee's, king kong, wine reds, pinto's and blue Bolts around feburary, my Neo's have multiplied, but given many away, and finally giving most away, leaving only cardinia, my water seems ok, since many of my cardinia are still here, and my Taiwan bee have berries, shrimplets should come any time.

I think you should be prepared to spend money, for me I have a HOF, CO2, water cooler and the right light, i'm intend to change the current substrate from ADA to the PB, but have to wait for the Taiwan bee to have shrimplets.

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joemjd9
20 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

If you want to test out the cardina you may want to go the route I did in that having a mix of shrimps colour and pattern in one tank is certainly more interesting to look at than 10 tanks with single/pattern

If you want to see the mix then just click on gallery/New images and scroll down. You should show the boss and I a sure it will swing it in your favour!

 

12 hours ago, kms said:

 few Taiwan bee's, king kong, wine reds, pinto's and blue Bolts around feburary

I agree with you both and you have changed my mind. I will go for mix of cardinia shrimp. Definately will be lot more interesting in terms of colours and patterns.

 

12 hours ago, kms said:

I think you should be prepared to spend money, for me I have a HOF, CO2, water cooler and the right light, i'm intend to change the current substrate from ADA to the PB, but have to wait for the Taiwan bee to have shrimplets.

I do already have most of the stuff. The only thing that I do not is the Chiller and even though I do have the KegKing Co2 setup, I will stay away from it because its a cardinia setup. Will research a bit further into the chiller this, as I do not want to buy one for a small tank and realise that I need to invest on a bigger one down the line.

Thank you guys for the input. Really appreciate the insight.

P.S: Great pics Simon. That has certainly swayed me towards a mixed setup.

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sdlTBfanUK

Glad we can be of some help and I agree you are doing the best thing by thinking it out thoroughly before you get started. It is very frustrating when you spend a lot of money on a small setup to then have to go and do the same again for another setup because it isn't big enough, way more economical and cost effective to get it right first time, though as you say you are starting with some of the stuff! I'm also sure that when I closed down the small one and moved the shrimps to the new tank that I probably lost half of the shrimplets as they were too small/young to be moved in reality but I really didn't want to have to run 2 tanks for a few months whilst I waited for them to grow - I had way too many anyway.

I can't be much help regarding the 'chiller' as we don't have hot enough weather here, in fact even the humans don't get that over here (except in expensive cars)? A lot may depend where you are placing the setup as well, mine is in a dark corner that doesn't get any direct sun. If it isn't likely to get too hot there for a while you can of course come back to that as a separate issue as it won't mean disrupting anything in the tank anyway should you decide to get one later! 

You are probably best steering away from the CO2 as it is one less thing to set up and, as you, I have read a lot of reports saying it isn't good with caridina shrimp setups, though I have no actual experience with it, but why risk it.

Hope you will keep us informed/updated.

Simon

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kms

The chiller is only useful if you live in a country that is hot, I think places like the UK should be alright without it. About the Co2, i'm not sure if it will affect neo's or the cardina, but my tank seems ok, I set the Co2 at its lowest because of a small tank, at least the plants are doing well, especially the floating one's  mini water lettuce, duckweed, RRF and frogbits which is beneficial to shrimps, I also have Fissidens fontanus, and madagascar lace plants.

Forgot to mention, I also have a UV light.

 

If you want to see some photo, just let me know.

Edited by kms
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jayc

No rush with the chiller,  as we are going into winter.  So shop around for the best price. 

With such a small tank,  get the smallest cheapest chiller you can find in the brands range.

Hailea chillers are probably the best compromise between price and quality. So you can start looking there. I think the HC100a is the smallest in this range.

The cheap eBay phase change chillers will work on your small tank but quality will reflect with the price.

Teco chillers are in the high range and will be a bit more expensive but they are good quality.  I have a couple myself. And they have been running every summer for many years now. 

Edited by jayc
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sdlTBfanUK
13 hours ago, kms said:

The chiller is only useful if you live in a country that is hot, I think places like the UK should be alright without it. About the Co2, i'm not sure if it will affect neo's or the cardina, but my tank seems ok, I set the Co2 at its lowest because of a small tank, at least the plants are doing well, especially the floating one's  mini water lettuce, duckweed, RRF and frogbits which is beneficial to shrimps, I also have Fissidens fontanus, and madagascar lace plants.

Forgot to mention, I also have a UV light.

 

If you want to see some photo, just let me know.

 

13 hours ago, kms said:

The chiller is only useful if you live in a country that is hot, I think places like the UK should be alright without it. About the Co2, i'm not sure if it will affect neo's or the cardina, but my tank seems ok, I set the Co2 at its lowest because of a small tank, at least the plants are doing well, especially the floating one's  mini water lettuce, duckweed, RRF and frogbits which is beneficial to shrimps, I also have Fissidens fontanus, and madagascar lace plants.

Forgot to mention, I also have a UV light.

 

If you want to see some photo, just let me know.

I think we are more of a 'must have a heater' country than 'must have a chiller'. Last year we had a few risky days where it got to 30 outside, but the tank water didn't get above 26 or 27, so it was close to where I thought I might see some dead bodies.

It sounds as though you have gone all out with your setup and I have always thought the madagascar lace plant is very attractive, and maybe you need Co2 with that sort of exotic plant setup, but generally I think shrimp are supposed to do better without it, but if it is all working stick with it.

I would love to see some photos, as I am sure others would as well.

Simon

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kms
6 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

 

I think we are more of a 'must have a heater' country than 'must have a chiller'. Last year we had a few risky days where it got to 30 outside, but the tank water didn't get above 26 or 27, so it was close to where I thought I might see some dead bodies.

It sounds as though you have gone all out with your setup and I have always thought the madagascar lace plant is very attractive, and maybe you need Co2 with that sort of exotic plant setup, but generally I think shrimp are supposed to do better without it, but if it is all working stick with it.

I would love to see some photos, as I am sure others would as well.

Simon

I will post photos tmr of my current setup, is not a pretty sight, just moves house, and as said, I recently gave 99% of my shrimps away, but it's ok, just looks something like a exotic jungle.😜

Edited by kms
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kms

Here are the photo's of the tank and my equipment, and shrimps.

 

My bee, somehow the eggs are gone and a few shrimplets are swimming, but they are not red and white.

347bu46.jpg

 

Top of my tank, I have cleared away more of the floating plants, they will grow back in a few days.

27yv7ef.jpg

 

Two of the three Blue Bolts.

x3zfxx.jpg

 

Full view of the tank, but not a pretty site.

f9jqd4.jpg

2ptcwzs.jpg

 

My Fluval Bluetooth LED light with dust to dawn function

v8lrwz.jpg

 

My UV light at the back of the tank, with water flow from the cooler and back to the tank

2vtekbl.jpg

 

My cheap USD40 30L water cooler, enough for a 16L Nano tank like mine, need a larger one if the tank is bigger.

25fitlv.jpg

 

My intense Co2 system.

2qx8bvq.jpg

 

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sdlTBfanUK
4 hours ago, kms said:

Here are the photo's of the tank and my equipment, and shrimps.

 

My bee, somehow the eggs are gone and a few shrimplets are swimming, but they are not red and white.

347bu46.jpg

 

Top of my tank, I have cleared away more of the floating plants, they will grow back in a few days.

27yv7ef.jpg

 

Two of the three Blue Bolts.

x3zfxx.jpg

 

Full view of the tank, but not a pretty site.

f9jqd4.jpg

2ptcwzs.jpg

 

My Fluval Bluetooth LED light with dust to dawn function

v8lrwz.jpg

 

My UV light at the back of the tank, with water flow from the cooler and back to the tank

2vtekbl.jpg

 

My cheap USD40 30L water cooler, enough for a 16L Nano tank like mine, need a larger one if the tank is bigger.

25fitlv.jpg

 

My intense Co2 system.

2qx8bvq.jpg

 

WOW! That is a lot equipment for a small tank, you are certainly dedicated to the cause! You must appreciate then that it is better to start off with a reasonable size tank as I hate to think what expense would be involved to then want to get a bigger setup and have to buy everything again? I started with an old 15L as I was trying an all new way, due to my many previous unsuccessful attempts, but have definitely now mastered it!

The shrimps have great colour, do you know what the babies are yet or aren't they coloured yet?  I quite like having the mixed tank as you never know what the babies will turn out to be? Hope the shrimplets do well and colour up nicely.

Love the madagascar lace plant!

Thanks for sharing the pictures. I tried taking some of mine today with a view to uploading those at some point soon, if they are of good enough quality and not all blurred as I didn't use a tripod! I counted 44 blue bolts this morning, they are definitely the most populating that tank.

I am curious as to the need for the UV light or Co2, is that for the madagascar lace plant? I'm just keen to learn more about the planted tanks but have never tried anything exotic.

Keep up the good work.

Simon

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kms

Thanks, I have the tank in my room, and it's a small room, so I can't have a large tank, I also have two Cuora Trifasicata turtle(endangered species) and a chinchilla, also in my room. Actually most of the equipment was before I got into shrimps keeping back in November, my intention was a small tetra fish tank, then somehow, a friend of mine talk and talk about shrimps, and got me in to it. The UV is to get rid of majority of the algae, as a small tank, algae is a problem, the lace plant is one of those I really like, but on the market, there are many variation, but sold a one. I have one that reaches about 12 inches at the back, and the front one that spreads outwards and with a much wider and larger leave, I had one before that the leaves grow 16 inches long, but too big for my tank, so I gave it away. Many plant will grow better with Co2, some will need co2, especially red leave, and the color does come out better. I only have 8 shrimps now but not including the shrimplets, one red, one yellow, one bee, three blue bolts, one wild, and one unknown it's has a solid black body and glossy finish. once I get hold of some new soil, the black premium I will sort the tank out, at present, the soil is out of stock in Hong Kong, just waiting for delivery.

 

Just like to add, the shrimplets are about 2mm long now, they started to appear just these few days, and my bee was the only shrimp to carry berries, just hope it's babies bee, and not neo's.

Edited by kms
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sdlTBfanUK
16 hours ago, kms said:

Thanks, I have the tank in my room, and it's a small room, so I can't have a large tank, I also have two Cuora Trifasicata turtle(endangered species) and a chinchilla, also in my room. Actually most of the equipment was before I got into shrimps keeping back in November, my intention was a small tetra fish tank, then somehow, a friend of mine talk and talk about shrimps, and got me in to it. The UV is to get rid of majority of the algae, as a small tank, algae is a problem, the lace plant is one of those I really like, but on the market, there are many variation, but sold a one. I have one that reaches about 12 inches at the back, and the front one that spreads outwards and with a much wider and larger leave, I had one before that the leaves grow 16 inches long, but too big for my tank, so I gave it away. Many plant will grow better with Co2, some will need co2, especially red leave, and the color does come out better. I only have 8 shrimps now but not including the shrimplets, one red, one yellow, one bee, three blue bolts, one wild, and one unknown it's has a solid black body and glossy finish. once I get hold of some new soil, the black premium I will sort the tank out, at present, the soil is out of stock in Hong Kong, just waiting for delivery.

 

Just like to add, the shrimplets are about 2mm long now, they started to appear just these few days, and my bee was the only shrimp to carry berries, just hope it's babies bee, and not neo's.

If the mother shrimp was a Bee then the babies will be Bee also, the 2 different don't interbreed, but if you don't know what the father was the you could have anything from the Bee family. They should colour up in a week from birth to where you will be able to tell what they will end up being.

I started with 3 red wine, 2 red ruby, 6 blue bolt and 3 blue steel and from those cross breeding I have mosura red and mosura black - some blue shadow, full reds, red bolt, black taiwan bee from full black to all the variants to the lesser grade striped, as well as ones similar to those I bought to start with, plus some other funky ones. There are some older photos in the gallery but I will try and get some newer photos uploaded, but that is a drama in its self as it is a cd disc camera so I have to take pictures, finalise the disc in the camera, put the disc into the computer, download the photos to the computer then email them to myself, then open the email to get them on my chromebook which is what I use mostly.

Is your yellow shrimp a cherry or a king kong? I a undecided whether I like/want the yellow king kongs or not but I am fully stocked anyway really. Counted 111 shrimps yesterday in 30L tank................

I think you made the right decision to keep shrimps instead of tetras as the shrimps are more interesting to watch and your tank is probably a little small for fish to be able to swim much.

I don't think my supplier over here sells the madagascar lace plants so they would have been hard to get hold of, but as you say they grow fairly big and quickly and I am definitely one for low maintenance plants.

I'm not very sure I would be able to sleep with all those creatures in my bedroom, I had a hamster when I was a child and that drove me nuts then, keep chewing the bars at night??? And the fish tanks aren't silent either, except the one with the Betta, but thats because they like low flow!

Simon

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kms
46 minutes ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

If the mother shrimp was a Bee then the babies will be Bee also, the 2 different don't interbreed, but if you don't know what the father was the you could have anything from the Bee family. They should colour up in a week from birth to where you will be able to tell what they will end up being.

I started with 3 red wine, 2 red ruby, 6 blue bolt and 3 blue steel and from those cross breeding I have mosura red and mosura black - some blue shadow, full reds, red bolt, black taiwan bee from full black to all the variants to the lesser grade striped, as well as ones similar to those I bought to start with, plus some other funky ones. There are some older photos in the gallery but I will try and get some newer photos uploaded, but that is a drama in its self as it is a cd disc camera so I have to take pictures, finalise the disc in the camera, put the disc into the computer, download the photos to the computer then email them to myself, then open the email to get them on my chromebook which is what I use mostly.

Is your yellow shrimp a cherry or a king kong? I a undecided whether I like/want the yellow king kongs or not but I am fully stocked anyway really. Counted 111 shrimps yesterday in 30L tank................

I think you made the right decision to keep shrimps instead of tetras as the shrimps are more interesting to watch and your tank is probably a little small for fish to be able to swim much.

I don't think my supplier over here sells the madagascar lace plants so they would have been hard to get hold of, but as you say they grow fairly big and quickly and I am definitely one for low maintenance plants.

I'm not very sure I would be able to sleep with all those creatures in my bedroom, I had a hamster when I was a child and that drove me nuts then, keep chewing the bars at night??? And the fish tanks aren't silent either, except the one with the Betta, but thats because they like low flow!

Simon

I see a total of 6 babies, there could be more, but yes the mother is a bee, went I did a clean sweep, that was the only shrimp with berries, the red and yellow I have is a cherry, I couldn't catch it as it was hiding, but if you say they can't interbreed, that is good news, as this will be my first bee with babies.

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