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ShrimpNewb

RO remineralizer for Neocaridina

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ShrimpNewb

Simple, really.  My new Neos are on the way.  I'm looking at four options now that I've decided to use RO water and remineralize it.  I need to get something on the way - the shrimp arrive next Friday.

Some are just Gh, in which case I will raise Kh with Seachem Alkaline Buffer.  Here are the options I am considering, by easiest to hardest to get:

1. Seachem Equilibrium

2. Aquavitro Shrimp GH (This is Seachem's new line for shrimp - and my LFS told me about it yesterday.  He's a great LFS.  It is a "dealer-only" line.  I am tempted.  It is liquid, so advantage = no sludge.)

3.  Dennerle Shrimp King Shrimp Salt Gh+/Kh+

4.  Salty Shrimp Mineral Gh/Kh+

Your thoughts?  Is this one of those, "they're all reliable companies who do their homework, so just pick one" kind of things, or is there some compelling reason to use one of the options?

Edited by ShrimpNewb

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beanbag

4.  End thread

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ShrimpNewb
8 minutes ago, beanbag said:

4.  End thread

That simple, huh?  Is it really just the best?

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sdlTBfanUK

You may find this helpful as I never had any success with tapwater with Taiwan bee shrimps but tap water in the uk seems ok with neo. If you want to go the RO water route you may want to read this especially as it is about a US product probably WIDELY available out there (could probably get one off the shelf  immediately), and cheaper/easier than an RO until as you then just filter tap water:

https://skfaquatics.com/forum/topic/14025-tap-water-taiwan-bee-uk-zerowater/

If you are getting neos you will want a GH+ and KH+, soe only do GH+ and these are meant for Bee shrimp! With RO water though I would expect the PH to be fairly low (6ish) so not sure how/if that will work? I think, as you say, they all do the same and are reputable so get whatever suits the best.

Simon

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ShrimpNewb
2 hours ago, sdlTBfanUK said:

You may find this helpful as I never had any success with tapwater with Taiwan bee shrimps but tap water in the uk seems ok with neo. If you want to go the RO water route you may want to read this especially as it is about a US product probably WIDELY available out there (could probably get one off the shelf  immediately), and cheaper/easier than an RO until as you then just filter tap water:

https://skfaquatics.com/forum/topic/14025-tap-water-taiwan-bee-uk-zerowater/

If you are getting neos you will want a GH+ and KH+, soe only do GH+ and these are meant for Bee shrimp! With RO water though I would expect the PH to be fairly low (6ish) so not sure how/if that will work? I think, as you say, they all do the same and are reputable so get whatever suits the best.

Simon

Thanks, Simon.  I looked it up and read your thread.  I can get a 160oz (4.7 liters) version here in the U.S. from the manufacturer for $26.  It's $40 for four replacement filters.  A lot would depend on how much water one could get from the filter, especially with the price of RO water being $0.50 per gallon around here.  Doing the math, if I got 75 gallons (about 300 liters) out of a single filter, it may be worth it during the first year, and it'd be economical after that.  How long do those filters last you?

Edited by ShrimpNewb

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sdlTBfanUK

I believe that Walmart sell them if that suits you better. If your tap water is about 50tds then you should get 150L approx per filter. Also it won't matter if the tds/GH/Kh of the tap water fluctuates as the filter will remove what is there, it will affect the life of the filter though proportionately, so probably not a great deal. You will probably get a tds meter with it!

The one thing I have noticed with it is it goes almost to the end of its life at 000 and then 001 for a short while and then quickly up to the 006 limit whereby they say you should change it. It isn't a problem as checking the tds is quick and easy, it is obviously just the  way the filter works, ie once it has reached its saturation point it loses the ability to work efficiently.

Based on a jug for $26 and 150L that makes 17c per litre (it will come with a filter) unless my math is out, and 7c per litre after the first filter?? Probably a no brainer..........

Simon

Simon

Edited by sdlTBfanUK
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Zoidburg

I just go to Wally World and get RO water for 33 cents a gallon. Always smart to bring along a TDS meter!

 

I would recommend #3 or #4 since both are geared towards shrimp.

 

#1 can be measy or doesn't completely dissolve and #2 is made by the same company. Never heard of it being a 'dealer only' product, but there are shrimp remineralizers out there that are liquid. SL-Aqua distributed by Discobee or Vin Shrimp sold by BuyPetShrimp. I don't think Vin has a KH product, but SL-Aqua does. (two separate products for GH and KH)


If you are using inert substrate, of course you'll want GH and KH. If using buffering, then only GH.

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jayc

Solid advise from everyone, as usual.

I'll just add that even when the filter gets old and produces 6ppm TDS, that's still not bad considering tap is wayyy more. That's if you want to stretch the value of the RO filter.

As for remineralisers, #2 is lower value for money since it is already in liquid form. You pay for someone else to premix it.

#3 & #4 in powder form gives you more value per dollar. But come with the added inconvenience of having to mix and dilute it yourself.

So get #3 or #4 if you want better value for your money. Or #2 if you want ease of use.

 

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beanbag
On 3/1/2019 at 6:26 PM, jayc said:

I'll just add that even when the filter gets old and produces 6ppm TDS, that's still not bad considering tap is wayyy more. That's if you want to stretch the value of the RO fil

Just be sure this 6ppm is not ammonia, because when a DI resin goes, it really goes.

 

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ShrimpNewb

OK, so I wimped out on the Zero Water filter for now.  I ordered a 7 gallon jug and am just going to get RO water from my LFS for the short term.  I am also planning to raise Kh and Gh separately instead of going with an all in one product.  We'll see if it works out.

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ShrimpNewb
On 3/1/2019 at 7:26 PM, jayc said:

Solid advise from everyone, as usual.

I'll just add that even when the filter gets old and produces 6ppm TDS, that's still not bad considering tap is wayyy more. That's if you want to stretch the value of the RO filter.

As for remineralisers, #2 is lower value for money since it is already in liquid form. You pay for someone else to premix it.

#3 & #4 in powder form gives you more value per dollar. But come with the added inconvenience of having to mix and dilute it yourself.

So get #3 or #4 if you want better value for your money. Or #2 if you want ease of use.

 

JayC, other than some solubility issues, what is wrong with Seachem Equilibrium?  It's ratio of Mg to Ca is exactly what I saw you recommend for shrimp in another thread at a little under 4:1, and I do plan to forever have this tank heavily planted, so the K will be utilized.  Is it just the hassle others have had with solubility?  Curious minds...

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jayc
18 minutes ago, ShrimpNewb said:

other than some solubility issues, what is wrong with Seachem Equilibrium?

That's the big problem with it. Because it doesn't dissolve properly, the parameters are never what you think it is. The undissolved parts, fall into the tank and continue to dissolve slowly, changing TDS, GH, KH and pH over time.

If you have no other choice, you can go with Equilibrium.

If price is an issue, you can DIY it. I have a post in the Water Parameters forum on the recipe and how to DIY. For the price of one bottle of Salty shrimp, you can make a kilo worth of remineraliser.

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ShrimpNewb

Thank you.  I so appreciate the knowledge from everyone here as I head into this project.

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ShrimpNewb

OK, so this is a seriously dumb question.  Does anyone just pre-mix their RO in the container and have it sitting around to put in the tank?  I was planning to mix it on the go as I am doing water changes, but then figured I could just make 7 gallons of the water, ready to go.  I guess the problem with that may be that the tank water could be different when I change it, but if I am trying to hit a consistent standard, would it work to just have the same water go into the tank all the time, even if it doesn't exactly match what is in there?

Thanks for answering my newbie questions.  I feel like I have quite a few of them.

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jayc
1 hour ago, ShrimpNewb said:

Does anyone just pre-mix their RO in the container and have it sitting around to put in the tank?

No, unless you use up the whole amount in a week.

The reason, I, (and I mean personally) don't like doing that is because, RO water having been stripped of chlorines and chloramines is very easy contaminated with bacteria (the bad kind, not beneficial bacteria).

So keeping it premixed for too long can introduce bad "stuff" into the tank. 

 

Another partial reason is the waste water it produces. I like reusing it to water plants or wash things. I can only re-use so much of it. So making too much RO water has a greater cost in wasted water.

 

There are probably other valid reasons other people might have.

But make as much as you need to use in a week, and there will be less waste.

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ShrimpNewb

Makes perfect sense.  Thanks.

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ShrimpNewb

So, is the reason a 1l bottle of remineralizer "solution" is stable and keeps longer because there is so much more of it in there, or is that same bacterial danger there as well?  Is there some shelf life on concentrated solutions (ie, premix), or just on weaker solutions like tank water?

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sdlTBfanUK

Just remember to use pure RO water (not reminerised) when topping up from evaporation BETWEEN water changes!

I agree with JayC but I do mine in 2 week batches (so it is used up in just over a week) and then keep it in 1L bottles with caps on, though I use the zerowater jug (incidently there is NO wasted water with this jug RO method).

Simon

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jayc
6 hours ago, ShrimpNewb said:

is the reason a 1l bottle of remineralizer "solution" is stable and keeps longer because there is so much more of it in there, or is that same bacterial danger there as well? 

A premixed remineraliser solution has HEAPS of salts in it, in the form of magnesium sulfates (epsom salts). It's so concentrated that bacteria can't live in those conditions. 

 

6 hours ago, ShrimpNewb said:

Is there some shelf life on concentrated solutions (ie, premix), or just on weaker solutions like tank water?

I don't think there is a shelf life on premixed remineraliser solutions. 

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beanbag

jayc's comments on letting remineralized water sit around got me thinking.  I've had pre-mixed up batches of water sitting around for a month or more with no obvious growth.  I asked the Salty Shrimp people about this, but unfortunately they replied back to me in German, and google translate doesn't seem to work too well.  So if anybody knows German, here is their reply:

" prinzipiell ist es kein Problem dein mit Bee Shrimp GH+ aufgesalzenes
Osmosewasser zu lagern, jedoch werden dabei einige Spurenelemente
verloren gehen. Dies hat sich bei unds allerdings noch nicht als negativ
herausgestellt, da wir selbst meist eine Menge von ca. 1000l aufgesalzen
parat haben. "

 

 

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ShrimpNewb
4 minutes ago, beanbag said:

jayc's comments on letting remineralized water sit around got me thinking.  I've had pre-mixed up batches of water sitting around for a month or more with no obvious growth.  I asked the Salty Shrimp people about this, but unfortunately they replied back to me in German, and google translate doesn't seem to work too well.  So if anybody knows German, here is their reply:

" prinzipiell ist es kein Problem dein mit Bee Shrimp GH+ aufgesalzenes
Osmosewasser zu lagern, jedoch werden dabei einige Spurenelemente
verloren gehen. Dies hat sich bei unds allerdings noch nicht als negativ
herausgestellt, da wir selbst meist eine Menge von ca. 1000l aufgesalzen
parat haben. "

Here's a loose translation.

They don't see it as a problem to leave mixed water around, though some trace elements are lost in doing so.  They don't see that as totally negative, and they themselves have left 1000l of water sitting around premixed.  

 

 

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jayc

I was talking about letting pure RO water sit around for too long unused. 

Try not to do it.


RO water that has been remineralised is different. 

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ShrimpNewb
6 hours ago, jayc said:

I was talking about letting pure RO water sit around for too long unused. 

Try not to do it.


RO water that has been remineralised is different. 

See, and I thought you meant weak solutions were just as susceptible.  So I should pre-mix my 7 gallon tank when I get the RO water and it will last the 4 weeks or so that I use it to change water just fine.  That's what I was after.  Apparently the Salty Bee guys think the same.  Makes sense.

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ShrimpNewb

So... because my LFS carries Sera products, I acquired some of their Shrimp Mineral Salt.  Haven't measured anything yet, but put enough to raise 5.3 gallons of water to Gh 6.5 and it dissolved instantly leaving a solution that looks like clear water.  Given that I've been using Seachem Equilibrium, which doesn't want to seem to dissolve much and makes a brown cloud in concentrated form, I am encouraged.  Will update with numbers once I make the water change.

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jayc
5 hours ago, ShrimpNewb said:

it dissolved instantly leaving a solution that looks like clear water.  Given that I've been using Seachem Equilibrium, which doesn't want to seem to dissolve much and makes a brown cloud

Now you see why we suggested "shrimp" specific products rather than suggesting equilibrium in our earlier replies?

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