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Zoidburg

There's a lot of people who don't clean the substrate! So I'd say not to worry! And with the correct bacteria in the tank, you don't need to anyway! A product like Mosura BT-9 is supposed to help with breaking down waste. I've got it mixed with Richwater to create SEMO and will see how that works. I do occasionally clean the substrate, but probably no more than 3-4 times a year.

 

Was thinking that the shrimp are either going to be Caridina (YKK's or TT's) or Neocaridina (Orange neo). Either one could live in the tank with what you currently have in there and it could breed with at least one of the other types of shrimp. If Neo, it'll breed with your red cherries and you might just get red/orange babies or you might get some wild type. Or, if Caridina, they'll breed with the Crystals and you might end up with some interesting offspring, but it could also take a few generations. (with a *very* slim chance, I think, of cross-breeding between genera)

Then I remembered another Caridina that can't breed with either one, but the offspring would not survive in freshwater. I highly doubt it's these guys.

Based on the pictures, they are *probably* Orange neos. The one(s) shown in pictures is a saddled female. Saddled, because her ovaries, full of eggs, looks like a horses saddle! The "saddle" is much harder to see on shrimp with a thick opaque shell, like the ones in your tank.

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sdlTBfanUK
17 minutes ago, Zoidburg said:

There's a lot of people who don't clean the substrate! So I'd say not to worry! And with the correct bacteria in the tank, you don't need to anyway! A product like Mosura BT-9 is supposed to help with breaking down waste. I've got it mixed with Richwater to create SEMO and will see how that works. I do occasionally clean the substrate, but probably no more than 3-4 times a year.

 

Was thinking that the shrimp are either going to be Caridina (YKK's or TT's) or Neocaridina (Orange neo). Either one could live in the tank with what you currently have in there and it could breed with at least one of the other types of shrimp. If Neo, it'll breed with your red cherries and you might just get red/orange babies or you might get some wild type. Or, if Caridina, they'll breed with the Crystals and you might end up with some interesting offspring, but it could also take a few generations. (with a *very* slim chance, I think, of cross-breeding between genera)

Then I remembered another Caridina that can't breed with either one, but the offspring would not survive in freshwater. I highly doubt it's these guys.

Based on the pictures, they are *probably* Orange neos. The one(s) shown in pictures is a saddled female. Saddled, because her ovaries, full of eggs, looks like a horses saddle! The "saddle" is much harder to see on shrimp with a thick opaque shell, like the ones in your tank.

Thanks for helping with this.

Simon

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sdlTBfanUK

Just doing this separately as the threads are getting a bit long and confusing, so new day, new start.

With the crystal/red cherry tank, I would check the distilled water (assuming you have some around) for GH and KH and if they are both 0-1 I think you should be ok.

With the bucket, I suspect that the TDS is shooting upwards quite quickly due to the poo in the bucket (tell me if this is wrong anyone!) so you should probably vac that often?

As Zoidburg stated, if you put the orange shrimp in with the crystals or Red cherry they will crossbreed with one or other depending on what the orange shrimp are. As you have it at the moment, orange separate for new, tank and red crystal and cherry in one tank there won't be any cross breeding.

Simon

 

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beanbag

Joining late, but here goes:

1) I don't recommend the Zerowater system because it is mainly an ion exchange resin, and when it depletes, it releases a lot of ammonia.  (you can see the reviews about how it develops a "fishy" smell)

2) I recommend a simple reverse osmosis system consisting of: sediment filter, carbon block for chlorine / chloramine removal, membrane, granular carbon post filter, and in-line TDS meter.  Don't bother with a water storage system or the DI resins.  Each week I make up two gallons of water into plastic jugs - one for me and one for my shrimp, which I add remineralizer.  The one drawback for a RO system is that when it breaks chloramine, it also releases ammonia (usually a very small amount).  So you can "fix" this with Prime, or let your biological filter take care of it, or not worry much if your pH is low.

3) When in doubt, dose Prime (even a partial dose).  It can "fix" chlorine, chloramine, ammonia, nitrite, heavy metals, etc.

4) Add some floating plants if you have too much nitrate.

5) buy full API test kit plus GH and KH

 

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jojowhisky
There's a lot of people who don't clean the substrate! So I'd say not to worry! And with the correct bacteria in the tank, you don't need to anyway! A product like Mosura BT-9 is supposed to help with breaking down waste. I've got it mixed with Richwater to create SEMO and will see how that works. I do occasionally clean the substrate, but probably no more than 3-4 times a year.
 
Was thinking that the shrimp are either going to be Caridina (YKK's or TT's) or Neocaridina (Orange neo). Either one could live in the tank with what you currently have in there and it could breed with at least one of the other types of shrimp. If Neo, it'll breed with your red cherries and you might just get red/orange babies or you might get some wild type. Or, if Caridina, they'll breed with the Crystals and you might end up with some interesting offspring, but it could also take a few generations. (with a *very* slim chance, I think, of cross-breeding between genera)
Then I remembered another Caridina that can't breed with either one, but the offspring would not survive in freshwater. I highly doubt it's these guys.
Based on the pictures, they are *probably* Orange neos. The one(s) shown in pictures is a saddled female. Saddled, because her ovaries, full of eggs, looks like a horses saddle! The "saddle" is much harder to see on shrimp with a thick opaque shell, like the ones in your tank.
Thank you zoidburg for your input on gravel vaccuming substrates.

Thanks for your help on id of the shrimps.

Hmmmm..will do a separate tank for them.
Im still a newbie and dont want to be playing around with breeding but it is good info on what you mentioned i could do with them.(put them tgt), in the future perhaps?

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Just doing this separately as the threads are getting a bit long and confusing, so new day, new start.
With the crystal/red cherry tank, I would check the distilled water (assuming you have some around) for GH and KH and if they are both 0-1 I think you should be ok.
With the bucket, I suspect that the TDS is shooting upwards quite quickly due to the poo in the bucket (tell me if this is wrong anyone!) so you should probably vac that often?
As Zoidburg stated, if you put the orange shrimp in with the crystals or Red cherry they will crossbreed with one or other depending on what the orange shrimp are. As you have it at the moment, orange separate for new, tank and red crystal and cherry in one tank there won't be any cross breeding.
Simon
 
Spot on with the tds level of the pail, i vac all the poo out and changed the water. Tds level came down to 205.
Gh at 5
Yep gonna separate these orange into a separate tank.
Scaping it end of this week and will start cycling.
Will wash off the dirty sponges in that cycling tank when i start its cycle(thank you jayc n simpn for the idea)


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sdlTBfanUK
2 hours ago, beanbag said:

Joining late, but here goes:

1) I don't recommend the Zerowater system because it is mainly an ion exchange resin, and when it depletes, it releases a lot of ammonia.  (you can see the reviews about how it develops a "fishy" smell)

2) I recommend a simple reverse osmosis system consisting of: sediment filter, carbon block for chlorine / chloramine removal, membrane, granular carbon post filter, and in-line TDS meter.  Don't bother with a water storage system or the DI resins.  Each week I make up two gallons of water into plastic jugs - one for me and one for my shrimp, which I add remineralizer.  The one drawback for a RO system is that when it breaks chloramine, it also releases ammonia (usually a very small amount).  So you can "fix" this with Prime, or let your biological filter take care of it, or not worry much if your pH is low.

3) When in doubt, dose Prime (even a partial dose).  It can "fix" chlorine, chloramine, ammonia, nitrite, heavy metals, etc.

4) Add some floating plants if you have too much nitrate.

5) buy full API test kit plus GH and KH

 

Interesting to get another view on the zerowater, always a good idea. I have been using it for a year and am on my 3rd filter. I did read about the 'fishy' smell, but I haven't come across that and assume people are just being lazy and not keeping an eye on the filter life. It will last a long time at TDS000 but when it gets to 003 (about 100L with my water) it will go up quickly after 003  (about 1TDS per litre to 006, I haven't gone passed that) so it needs keeping an eye on the TDS (but that is easy enough) and the manufacturers state it should be changed at 006 anyway, and my money would be on the likelihood that people aren't doing that, after all for drinking what is 006TDS, nothing and being too mean to buy and replace the filter cartridge when the manufacturer recommends they should!.

To sum up, I am using the zerowater AS PER THE MANUFACTURERS RECOMMENDATIONS, am on my 3rd filter (2 for the year basically) and have a tank over run with shrimp (having now to cull some), never seen a dead shrimp or any unusual parameters, disease etc and NO Ammonia. If you want to/ or have read my original first ever post (about this very subject) it is no exaggeration to say that without the zerowater filter I wouldn't even be keeping Taiwan Bee shrimp at this point, but all details are in that article. A year of zerowater with shrimp so far, judge for yourself?

https://skfaquatics.com/forum/topic/14025-tap-water-taiwan-bee-uk-zerowater/

It is always good to get another perspective though and good to see you back on here.

Simon

Edited by sdlTBfanUK
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sdlTBfanUK
6 minutes ago, jojowhisky said:

Thank you zoidburg for your input on gravel vaccuming substrates.

Thanks for your help on id of the shrimps.

Hmmmm..will do a separate tank for them.
Im still a newbie and dont want to be playing around with breeding but it is good info on what you mentioned i could do with them.(put them tgt), in the future perhaps? emoji16.png

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Spot on with the tds level of the pail, i vac all the poo out and changed the water. Tds level came down to 205.
Gh at 5
Yep gonna separate these orange into a separate tank.
Scaping it end of this week and will start cycling.
Will wash off the dirty sponges in that cycling tank when i start its cycle(thank you jayc n simpn for the idea)


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It is safer to keep the same 'type' of shrimp separate, especially cherry as when they cross breed you end up with them reverting to wild type, mine have done that and 75% of my cherry shrimp are now a boring brown colour. I don't cull them though as now I am focusing on the Taiwan Bee shrimp, the fish and cherry tank gets pretty much ignored most of the time. I expect in a years time ALL the shrimp in that tank will be boring brown ones unless I restock at some stage!

You can use some of the dirty water from the other tank and/or bucket as well to speed up the cycling process in the new orange tank setup, so if you do anything between now and then I would keep the water ready for setting the tank up at the weekend.

Those parameters are good now but the TDS will probably rise fairly quickly as the shrimp poo in the bucket in the meantime and there isn't anything else in that bucket, that is probably why it was so high before?

Simon

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jojowhisky
It is safer to keep the same 'type' of shrimp separate, especially cherry as when they cross breed you end up with them reverting to wild type, mine have done that and 75% of my cherry shrimp are now a boring brown colour. I don't cull them though as now I am focusing on the Taiwan Bee shrimp, the fish and cherry tank gets pretty much ignored most of the time. I expect in a years time ALL the shrimp in that tank will be boring brown ones unless I restock at some stage!
You can use some of the dirty water from the other tank and/or bucket as well to speed up the cycling process in the new orange tank setup, so if you do anything between now and then I would keep the water ready for setting the tank up at the weekend.
Those parameters are good now but the TDS will probably rise fairly quickly as the shrimp poo in the bucket in the meantime and there isn't anything else in that bucket, that is probably why it was so high before?
Simon
Hi simon!
Ah the reasons for the high killer tds could be:
shrimp poo, lots of it
I had thought it was ok to leave them there. Stupid brain, i know, i am that much of a newbie before i joined this fabulous forum.
i had some leftover plants from scaping that tank with the rcs n crs. So i left them, in their pots n rockwool, in the pail. While i was gravel vaccuming all the poo, i saw that several plants had already started to foul in the pot, the rockwool was a hot mess.
this pail is holding up with dechlorinated tap water, tds is already super high, on top of that, i have not done a water change for 2 weeks..was too upset with the loss of mr diamond(crystal)
that spirulina powder i bought recently was mixed with a biofilm conditioner and dosed into the pail.

Yep will separate these batch of oranges in a separate tank.
Will look into breeding and breeding special bloods when i get smarter in this hobby, for now i really need to get myself into mastering the parameters and maintaining it.


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sdlTBfanUK
15 hours ago, jojowhisky said:

Hi simon!
Ah the reasons for the high killer tds could be:
emoji117.pngshrimp poo, lots of it
I had thought it was ok to leave them there. Stupid brain, i know, i am that much of a newbie before i joined this fabulous forum.
emoji117.pngi had some leftover plants from scaping that tank with the rcs n crs. So i left them, in their pots n rockwool, in the pail. While i was gravel vaccuming all the poo, i saw that several plants had already started to foul in the pot, the rockwool was a hot mess.emoji1785.png
emoji117.pngthis pail is holding up with dechlorinated tap water, tds is already super high, on top of that, i have not done a water change for 2 weeks..was too upset with the loss of mr diamond(crystal)
emoji117.pngthat spirulina powder i bought recently was mixed with a biofilm conditioner and dosed into the pail.

Yep will separate these batch of oranges in a separate tank.
Will look into breeding and breeding special bloods when i get smarter in this hobby, for now i really need to get myself into mastering the parameters and maintaining it.


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If you get the parameters right you don't need to worry about breeding as they will readily do that!

I see you have some blues (on another thread), I'm not knowledgeable on the colours so will let others answer that thread, will you be keeping them in ANOTHER tank, I'm already losing track?? I thought you did 50% change in the bucket (with orange shrimp) yesterday so what 'pail' have you not done for 2 weeks?

Sounds like you have gotten into this in a big way so you are doing/learning well and will get there. People are more than happy to help with advice, that is why we are on here!

This is the only forum I belong to so am a bit of a newbie with such matters, but it may be easier for you and others replying if under 'shrimp tank setup' you set up a thread for each of your tanks, ie something like 'Jojo Crystal tank', 'Jojo Orange tank' and so on if that makes sense, especially if you will be doing different things and using different water in some tanks etc? Will be easier to refer back to in future as well?

Hopefully the plants should survive in the bucket until you get to put them in tanks. 

Simon

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jojowhisky
If you get the parameters right you don't need to worry about breeding as they will readily do that!
I see you have some blues (on another thread), I'm not knowledgeable on the colours so will let others answer that thread, will you be keeping them in ANOTHER tank, I'm already losing track?? I thought you did 50% change in the bucket (with orange shrimp) yesterday so what 'pail' have you not done for 2 weeks?
Sounds like you have gotten into this in a big way so you are doing/learning well and will get there. People are more than happy to help with advice, that is why we are on here!
This is the only forum I belong to so am a bit of a newbie with such matters, but it may be easier for you and others replying if under 'shrimp tank setup' you set up a thread for each of your tanks, ie something like 'Jojo Crystal tank', 'Jojo Orange tank' and so on if that makes sense, especially if you will be doing different things and using different water in some tanks etc? Will be easier to refer back to in future as well?
Hopefully the plants should survive in the bucket until you get to put them in tanks. 
Simon
Hi simon,
Yep i agree we got really into detail and have thus derailed and started discussing about other stuff.
I do apologize for that, admins please forgive me and feel free to change my thread to whichever is deemed best.
I am as well a newbie on forums
The other forum im on in my local did not work well for learning. (Another story perhaps)

Again sorry for the confusion

Main tank:
I have one tank with crs and rcs, the same one with mr diamond. That is the first running tank i have ever set up.

Pail:
Than i have the pail with oranges. I meant to say the high tds of 300plus was before i did the wc yesterday. And those were the reasons why i feel contributed to the high tds. But it has since been corrected after the wc.
Thank you again for all the advice i picked up from zoidburg, simon and jayc on the RIP MR DIAMOND thread. I appiled whatever you guys said to this pail of oranges yesterday.

Am scaping a proper tank for the oranges this weekend.
Will concurrently scape and cycle another one tank specially for the tetras that i separated from the MAIN TANK with the rcs and crs.
Will be applying whatever you guys taught me on parameters and speeding the cycle process.

Im so glad and thankful for all the help i got here. Was really alone and confused beyond measure after researching from the internet. Grateful for the culture of openess and spirit of sharing here.

Great company of like minded hobbyists here.
Love it!

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jayc
1 hour ago, jojowhisky said:

Grateful for the culture of openess and spirit of sharing here.

We pride ourselves on being open and sharing here on SKF.

One day you will repay your experiences to other newbies. 

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sdlTBfanUK
3 hours ago, jojowhisky said:

Hi simon,
Yep i agree we got really into detail and have thus derailed and started discussing about other stuff.
I do apologize for that, admins please forgive me and feel free to change my thread to whichever is deemed best.
I am as well a newbie on forums emoji2960.png
The other forum im on in my local did not work well for learning. (Another story perhaps)

Again sorry for the confusion

Main tank:
I have one tank with crs and rcs, the same one with mr diamond. That is the first running tank i have ever set up.

Pail:
Than i have the pail with oranges. I meant to say the high tds of 300plus was before i did the wc yesterday. And those were the reasons why i feel contributed to the high tds. But it has since been corrected after the wc.
Thank you again for all the advice i picked up from zoidburg, simon and jayc on the RIP MR DIAMOND thread. I appiled whatever you guys said to this pail of oranges yesterday.

Am scaping a proper tank for the oranges this weekend.
Will concurrently scape and cycle another one tank specially for the tetras that i separated from the MAIN TANKemoji115.png with the rcs and crs.
Will be applying whatever you guys taught me on parameters and speeding the cycle process.

Im so glad and thankful for all the help i got here. Was really alone and confused beyond measure after researching from the internet. Grateful for the culture of openess and spirit of sharing here.

Great company of like minded hobbyists here.
Love it!

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I am getting on a bit, well definitely feel it anyway, so it doesn't take much to confuse me, and as I was an accountant I have quite a tidy organised mind etc. You certainly haven't done anything wrong, I just thought it may be a better idea to have a thread per tank, but that is just my 'organised' brain, if you prefer carrying on as you are, go for it, entirely your choice.

Thanks for clarifying the high TDS, I thought maybe you had another bucket with something else in, but relieved to hear that it was Before the water change of the bucket you were suffering high TDS. I hope the big water change with the orange shrimps din't cause any problems.

Hope all goes well with setting up the new tanks this weekend (if the other one you set up is anything to go by they will look fabulous) and look forward to reading/seeing how it is all going. Hopefully someone may be able to help with the blue shrimp thread as well!

Simon

ps I used the non dechlorinted water yesterday and all seems good so far, thanks JayC

 

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jojowhisky
I am getting on a bit, well definitely feel it anyway, so it doesn't take much to confuse me, and as I was an accountant I have quite a tidy organised mind etc. You certainly haven't done anything wrong, I just thought it may be a better idea to have a thread per tank, but that is just my 'organised' brain, if you prefer carrying on as you are, go for it, entirely your choice.
Thanks for clarifying the high TDS, I thought maybe you had another bucket with something else in, but relieved to hear that it was Before the water change of the bucket you were suffering high TDS. I hope the big water change with the orange shrimps din't cause any problems.
Hope all goes well with setting up the new tanks this weekend (if the other one you set up is anything to go by they will look fabulous) and look forward to reading/seeing how it is all going. Hopefully someone may be able to help with the blue shrimp thread as well!
Simon
ps I used the non dechlorinted water yesterday and all seems good so far, thanks JayC
 
Nope, that was a good suggestion actually, it gets messy when all of us actually began talking more in depth. I as well think it is a good idea to put on a specific title and file it appropriately, less confusing. But well, i guess when learning new things, one gets carried away!

Update on the oranges in the pail:
Everyone is still alive!!! I dripped the prepared solution in very slowly(found the mysterious "dripper") and i as well used distilled water WITHOUT prime. EVERYBODY IS STILL ALIVE. They sure look more active now.

Wish me luck on setting up new tanks for the
Oranges and tetras.
I feel a wave of late nights and more over thinking blowing over.

You have been a joy to speak with and your patience to explain deep technical details to a slow person like me is nothing short of amazing.

To more learning threads and endless joy in this hobby,
Jo



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We pride ourselves on being open and sharing here on SKF.
One day you will repay your experiences to other newbies. 
Yes!
Hopefully i will get there!


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    • jayc
      It can be done, but I wouldn't say it is without issues.  Without a buffering substrate the water conditions can be impacted by something very quickly. The pH will fall or rise very quickly, too quickly for Caridinas. So ... if you can be very careful with monitoring water parameters and keeping to a strict routine in maintaining the same-ish parameters week after week, than go for it. 
    • Jbio
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Great to hear everything is going nicely and you feel ready to start transferring more to the new tank. You were always going to have the PH difference as you are using soil but my cherry shrimp I have in both tanks thrive ok, it just means that you should drip acclimate them probably most of the day to be on the safe side and it is easy enough with the dripper to just leave it going all day. I am not advocating doing this, but as I was putting the cull shrimps into the new betta tank which had a low PH due to new substrate I just dumped them straight in and they were fine and I didn't see a dead one ever (I saw 10 the other day which is about the number I DUMPED in there) - they are much hardier/adaptable than the bee shrimps. I would do as you want/propose and try 10 for the first transfer! I really don't think you will have a problem with the PH difference but would do a long acclimatising to be safe. I have the same floating weed and mine grows really quickly but it is much easier to keep that under control than duckweed as when you get too many big ones you just remove a few. Incidentally when I do my weekly maintenance I trim off the longer bits of root to about 2 inches and it doesn't seem to harm them! You should probably keep a close eye on the tanks this week as we are supposed to be over 30 degrees most of the week. The smaller tank will be the one most at risk of excessive heat? I wish my reset shrimp tank was as lush and green as your new one - good job! I have added 17 shrimps so far and saw 8 yesterday? Simon
    • CurleyJones321
      Right so i've left the tanks and inhabitants for well this long simply because i dont want things to die off if i can help it and people have said leave it a month after establishing a tank before adding shrimp. Other than doing normal maintenance and transferring the 2 liters of old water from the small tank to the large each time and the large tank then getting an extra 2 liters of mineralised new water. Friday i sorted out all the tank decor in both tanks and adjusted the tank TDS to within 5TDS of each other. mainly because i needed to cull the flaoting plants which in the large tank the frogbit has taken over and in the small tank the water lettuce had almost taken over. the Duckweed has all but died out in both tanks not that i have done anything to aid it. my tanks now look like the attached. i then took readings they are as follows:-

      Small tank
      TDS - 232
      Temp - 23C
      PH - 7
      NH4 - Unreadable
      N03 - 1PPM
      N02 - 0.05PPM
      P04 - 2PPM
      dKH - 2
      dGH - 6

      Large Tank
      TDS - 237
      Temp - 24C
      PH - 5.5
      NH4 - Unreadable
      N03 - Unreadable
      N02 - Unreadable
      P04 - 1PPM
      dKH - 1
      dGH - 5

      So the Phosphate is up but thats because i was massively invasive in the tanks and churned up the fertaliser i have in the tank substrate. The PH is also what i would consider to be completely off

      also as a side note its worth mentioning that stressing plays out seems to stimulate them to give birth, i now have an extra at least 3 fry appear in the tank just after the works when the mothers had seemed to have stopped giving birth.

      i also got a new fish the in other breed of platy because the fish keeper at my LFS told me they could interbreed and it might make what im doing with the fish go faster, i got him today and named him Rodney and am about to add him to the Large Tank with Tyrone  before taking Tyrone out and putting more females in the tank with Rodney to let nature take its course. the Fish keeper did tell me to drip acclimate him however as the PH shock may be too much so that's what I'm currently doing and he's on his 2nd dip.

      that does make me wonder however can i now add shrimp to the tank or is the PH going to be a massive problem. i estimate i have between 60 and 100 shrimp in the small tank and want to transfer over say 10?
    • sdlTBfanUK
      Thanks for replying. I know what you mean about breeding, I started off with about 10 and was soon (couple of months) over 100, and  I am sure that would have kept going up if the tank could  have supported more??? I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work with bee shrimps if it is working so well for your cherry shrimp. Obviously the parameters are different but if you are managing to keep the cherry tanks stable I don't see why the bee would be any different, although they are a lot harder to keep! Worth a try though unless someone says otherwise? I shall certainly follow this with some interest. Simon 
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