Black Pandas death in 2 hours

[Pablo]

Hi guys,

I need an explanation to what has happened to me ... today, some beautiful Black Panda came home, they were all alive and very active, the water temperature inside the bag was 19.8 degrees Celsius so I started the acclimation with the temperature leaving the bag floating in my tank but open for oxygen exchange (the bag was a breathing bag, is this an issue? It was open…).

In just 30 minutes the water reached 23.5 degrees (could be this an issue?) so I started with the drip to match the parameters of the water and only half an hour later there was a dead shrimp, after this death all start to die in a period of 2 hours.

The substrate is Glas Garten (PH 5.8 max), I use Bee Shrimp GH+ (TDS 130 - GH 6), I checked before Ammonia, NH2 and NH3 and all were in zero. The shrimps came with a PH 6.8, GH 6, TDS 155.

Two weeks ago, I was doing some maintenance in the tank and I broke one small hydrogen thermometer dropping all the small metal balls in the water, so immediately I sucked all the balls with a pipe removing also a big amount of soil. Could this thermometer poison my water? I took some of my Neocaridina shrimps in a bag and I added this water and they look fine, why the pandas died?

Should I set up the tank again from zero?

Thanks

[Baccus]

So the shrimp never made it out of the bag and into the tank?

I am guessing that the water just got too hot for them between the times of floating to the drip acclimatisation. Also the gH and pH where vastly differing from their original home compared to your tank. I suspect even with slow drip acclimatisation the huge difference would have caused issues.

Before their deaths did the shrimp exhibit weird behaviour? I know if my water is in any way off the shrimp are quick to congregate at the surface of the tank and if things are really bad start trying to climb out of the tank. At other times they just cant seem to settle and will hurtling about the tank, and not in the way of males looking for females ready to breed. Being in the bag it would have been hard to see if the shrimp where trying to escape or hanging at the surface more than expected.

I am pretty sure most thermometers don't use mercury any more, but I am not sure what they use now and if it would be toxic to shrimp.

If your willing and able too I would personally trial some shrimp your willing to potentially sacrifice in the tank. If the sacrificial ones don't get sick or die out right I would hope the tank is safe for more demanding shrimp species.

[jayc]

4 hours ago, Pablo said:

small hydrogen thermometer dropping all the small metal balls in the water

Whats a hydrogen thermometer? Got a picture of one? 

Don't like the sound of this. Whatever was in the thermometer is now in the tank, filter, and substrate.

Is it one of these? 

I always thought the little balls at the bottom were lead to weight it down. And the red liquid is dyed alcohol. 

The tank needs to be drained and filter emptied to remove any trace of alcohol. But as that happened 2 weeks prior to your shrimp arriving, you would think the alcohol would have evaporated by then. 

I'm not sure what the (small amount of) alcohol would do to the beneficial bacteria. 

 

 

 

How long were the shrimp in transit between seller's tank and your home?

If they were in the bag for a long time, ammonia would have built up in the tiny bag.

 

Whatever the cause, it's a strange one. You did everything right with acclimation. 

 

 

[Baccus]

Just another thought I am guessing that the shrimp you got were adult with no real way of determining their true age. I have noticed previously when dealing with adult shrimp they do not always travel as well and can be less forgiving in the water paramaters department. It has been my experience that juvi shrimp tend to travel and adapt better. Even to the point where I have had a mix of adult and juvi. While the adults struggled the juvi's adapted and thrived and the next generation go on to be even better at thriving in my water paramaters. I have found this to even be the case in the same town where myself and another person have exactly the same town water source, but due to other things added or not added to the tanks the final paramaters are different enough for the shrimp to struggle from my tank to his. And these are hardy cherry shrimp. But once the initial hurdle is over the surviving shrimp are now breeding up a storm in his tanks, now fully acclimatised to his tank conditions.

[Pablo]

Hello Guys,

Thanks for your replies.

1-Hydrogen? What? I´m crazy and Spanish is my mother tongue... I wanted to say Alcohol.

2- I tested some of my Neocaridina shrimps and they did very well, even I added more water and the parameters were much different (but same temperature, I was looking por poison).

3-The shrimps were adults.

4-They arrived home in less than 24 hours. The shrimps arrived at 10:35 am, the water drip started at 10:55 and the first death was at 11:25.

5- I just left the bag floating (opened and hanged to one corner)

6- All shrimps came spread in the bag but ones the temperature acclimation started they ALL climbed to the top on a sponge ¿?¿?

Said that, because they came at 19.8 degree and in less than 20 minutes the water was in 23.5 degree (the bag was quite small) I´m thinking that temperature difference could be the issue. Less than 4 degrees could be the cause?

The shrimps came active and every minute they were quieter and quieter until die. I saw the feedback from other buyers and all said that the shrimps arrived healthy.

Now I re-started the tank and I will continue with the neocaridina shrimps :( I don´t feel confident to jump in to Caridina yet. 

Thanks

[Baccus]

I am guessing that the top of the sponge was near the surface of the water, if so the shrimp where in effect trying to escape the conditions they didn't like.

I do suspect that the problem arose from the temperate shock, a gradual increase or decrease over a matter of days they may adjust to quite well but such a quick change even with drip acclimatisation to get them used to the new pH and gH was just too much too soon.

I am sorry for your loss I learnt the hard way (after a few hundred dollars being spent buying them) that crystal reds and that ilk just do not like the hot temperatures I get here, where as cherry shrimp and many of the Australian native caridina species thrive in my tanks. So as much as I love CRS, CBS, and their various varients I have to just watch them from a far and content myself with rilli shrimp and other colours of cherry I can keep.

[OzShrimp]

I would agree with what you guys said in terms of temperature being the likely culprit. If your floating the bag inside the tank their going into then the only benefit of the drip is to acclimatize them to the differing water parameters as they bag will be heated by the ambient water surrounding the bag. 

I would suggest using an external breeder box in which you can filter tank water through to acclimate them to avoid issues. Place it on the side of your tank empty and fill it with the water from the bag with the shrimp inside. Then when you turn it on you can acclimate them over a number of hours and eventually the water becomes 100% tank water at matching conditions.

 

I used to use the Sudo Satellite breeding boxes but there are lots that are practically identical.