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Greetings shrimp enthusiasts, hobbyists, keepers and those with curiousity and a passing interest,

I was once one with a passing interest that'd grown into a curiousity and now i'm heading for the keeper stage -- hopefully a keeper of Riffle Shrimp.

Below is my 36" x 18" x 18" tank. As you can see it's a planted tank. It completed its Nitrogen Cycle today -- it's a happy day that's been a long time in the making. We purchased the tank in Feb of 2015 and what with moving house soon after and our 3rd baby it's taken this long to get to this exciting day. I've had tanks with shrimps before with what I'd describe as limited success, but it's been many years and with the knowledge, equipment and technology that's around today I feel like I've just begun as a new aquarist all over again.

As yet we have no fish, let alone shrimp, but that is likely to change in the next few days. We intend the tank to be a community one but with a key feature being some shrimp. I saw some Riffles in a display tank in a fish store and was immediately drawn to them well ahead of the various smaller shrimps that they had for sale. They didn't and still don't have any Riffles for sale. I trust that I will one day get some, somehow, so I am aiming to prepare my tank for that time and thought it might be good to ask the SKF Aquatics community for guidance and advice -- not just be a fly on the wall reading other's posts.

Tank specs:

36 x 18 x 18 inches (approx 90 x 45 x 45 cm); about 50 gal (190 litres)
Substrate: ADA Malaya (not a super nutrient rich variety as we plan to have a low tech tank in the long run)
DW: Golden Vine
Rocks: Red rock
Plants: Monte Carlo (Low-tech thriving), three varieties of Crypts, Amazon Sword, Lileopolis, Rotala Walichii, tiny bit of Val, tiny bit of Telanthera, Anubis mini nana
Fluval 406 Cannister Filter (pretty hi-flow/circulation is how i understand it for my tank size)
Hydor inline heater
UP Aqua U Series P LED light
Hydor Koralia Wavemaker (not used at present)

Fish/Invertebrates we have in mind (but are by no means fixed choices):

5 x White Fin Ornate Tetra (a docile, hardy tetra that is highly recommended as a fish for a freshly cycled tank) that aren't schooling, but more shoaling)
3 x Otocinclus (for algae should it one day inevitably strike)
1-2 x Chain Loaches (aka dwarf loach) (to deal with some pond snails and is hopefully compatible with Riffles)
20-ish x Cardinal Tetras (hardy and schooling)
5-7 x Celestial Pearl Danio
1-2 x Borneo Catfish
Pair x Blue Rams
Colony of Riffles

Is the above list suitable tank-mates with Riffles? All are pretty docile as I understand it.

As I said before, the tank just completed cycling. I plan to test its stability, but using ADA Aquasoils they are said to be able to handle a high bio-load once cycled due to their nature to leech a lot of ammonia. If the cycle is stable then it's possible it's ready to load the tank up with quite a bit. 

January 10 I began the hardscape and the next day planted as much as I could envisage would fit once the plants grow out. We have an 8 hour photoperiod and plants have been growing very well without CO2 or ferts. We have had ZERO algae outbreak (touch wood) aside from a tiny tiny bit of brown algae on the DW along with protein slime, which the pond snail hatch-lings cleaned, feasted, thrived on, and even laid eggs upon already. Water testing 2-3 times a day I have watched and kept a detailed journal of the cycling process.

Today, as planned for the day the cycle completed,  I dosed the tank for the first time with Seachem Flourish Excel, some Fluval plant food I had from a few years back, and Seachem Equilibrium. The water we have here in Melbourne is quite soft and a TDS meter reading shows that some added salts and minerals were required (I understand that an ideal aim is for TDS reading of 250, but I'm usually under that). I've added coral bone to the cannister filter as PH (ADA Aquasoils cause PH to drop for a while also) needed buffering up to 7.0 neutral. I'll continue to test the water daily to see that stability is maintained. Water temperature has been high at 29 Degrees C to speed up the Nitrogen Cycle process, as has surface agitation, and these I will adjust these lower once I've confirmed that cycle stability. I need to purchase a KH/GH test kit, but understand it also has a relationship with TDS (hence the aim of TDS 250), but please correct me if I'm mistaken?

So aside from a critique of what I have done above I now ask for your learned advice on what I need to do next in preparation for shrimp? I feel I need to let introduce the fish first and get them comfortable, meanwhile it's reasonable to expect that the plants will have accelerated growth with the added carbon from the Flourish. Am I right to understand that Riffle Shrimp would like a jungle-ish environment?  I can envisage them sitting on the left hand side of the drift wood where the out flow is highest (the wavemaker also points at that spot and I'd probably set that on a timer to come on several times a day if it's needed) filter feeding.  Once I feel I have the right environment and care knowledge I hope I will be able to obtain some Riffle Shrimps with some help from SKF! Then perhaps I can truly move from being just curious through to being an enthusiast with some experience to share/help others.

Thank you for reading, hope it's interesting and there aren't too many who look and go TL;DR.

Please be gentle: Although I read A LOT of forums, this is the first time I'm posting in any forum in a very long time after finding the experience with keyboard warriors too taxing. I wouldn't normally have taken the time to ask for help in any forum; but, the enthusiasm for the idea of having these captivating shrimp in my planted community tank has surpassed my shyness and found me willing to put myself out there. 

D
 

tank cycled march3.jpg

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On 03/02/2018 at 9:23 PM, Dooliga said:

Fish/Invertebrates we have in mind (but are by no means fixed choices):

5 x White Fin Ornate Tetra (a docile, hardy tetra that is highly recommended as a fish for a freshly cycled tank) that aren't schooling, but more shoaling)
3 x Otocinclus (for algae should it one day inevitably strike)
1-2 x Chain Loaches (aka dwarf loach) (to deal with some pond snails and is hopefully compatible with Riffles)
20-ish x Cardinal Tetras (hardy and schooling)
5-7 x Celestial Pearl Danio
1-2 x Borneo Catfish
Pair x Blue Rams
Colony of Riffles

Blue rams will decimate any shrimps you have, even ones as large as riffles.

Cardinals are iffy. They can go a long time not being interested in shrimp. Then one day, one cardinal will taste a dead shrimp or something and BAM! they could start hunting every shrimp in the tank. Of course they can't swallow it whole. But they take little bits at a time. One leg here, one tail there, and the shrimp is dead. Then again, they might not touch them at all. Possible but risky. If you ever get a cardinal under a microscope, you will see how much these little fellas teeth look like piranhas. 

Same with the loaches. Shrimps are natural food for loaches. These dwarf chain loaches might go a long time without bothering shrimp, however. Another risky fish. 

Fish don't need to fit a shrimp whole into their mouths to be unsafe for shrimp. An analogy I like using is ... "ever see a Lion swallow a zebra whole? ". They take bites out of the prey until it's dead. 

 

 

On 03/02/2018 at 9:23 PM, Dooliga said:

So aside from a critique of what I have done above I now ask for your learned advice on what I need to do next in preparation for shrimp? I feel I need to let introduce the fish first and get them comfortable

some planning is required on your part to prioritise what sort of tank this is going to be.

Is it a fish tank, with some shrimp?

Or is it going to be a shrimp tank?

How you set it up will be based on which path you choose.

 

If you are set on a fish tank, then add the fish now since the tank is cycled.

If you want some shrimp in it, then rethink the types of fish you will stock.

Note: Riffles can be difficult to source. Best to start a "Want to Buy" thread now.

 

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Thank you jayc,

Definitely given me something to think about (and I have been since you replied, hence my delay in responding). Appreciate it. I have a smaller tank that I'm thinking to set up that might be more suitable. The above tank is more about community; more for my young children with moving colour and life in the living room. Not saying shrimp aren't that, far from it, but there is a difference in visual impact for say kids 1 to 4 y/o (which i have two of). 

Anyway, we still haven't stocked this tank as I'm continuing to test the cycle and grow more Nitrosomona. So no firm decisions made as to types. I'll research more what (if any?) mid-to-top level schooling fish are peaceful enough that they won't bother riffles.

Thanks again,

D

 

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  • 1 month later...

I have found Dwarf Chain Loaches to be shrimp safe, well the cherry shrimp still manage to breed up a storm in the tank with the Dwarf Chain Loaches and even when highly desired food is offered and the shrimp and loaches all come out to enjoy it I have not seen any evidence of the Dwarf Chain Loaches even attempting to snack on a shrimp. In the same tank I also have regular crops of bristle nose fry and again the eggs and the newly hatched fry never seem to get eaten. I would suggest tho instead of just 1-2 Dwarf Chain Loaches I would get a minimum of 5 they are a highly social loach and the more together keeps them happy and playing their fishie politics more amongst themselves rather than spilling out to annoy other fish in the tank. I believe Borneo Suckers to also be shrimp safe since once again the tank I have that houses Borneo Suckers also has a thriving colony of cherry shrimp. Plus Borneo Suckers tend to stick to the glass and rocks rather than doing much free water swimming.  Riffles and Borneo Suckers should be a good combo since both like plenty of water movement and cooler water. I also have riffle shrimp in with the Borneo Suckers and all seems to be going well in the tank and has been for a couple of years.

Otocinclus should be fine with shrimp, but I have heard tails of them snacking on the odd shrimplet. I cant say I have experienced this since my oto's get protein offered to them with the catfish wafers I put in for my pack of corydoras. Speaking of corydoras they are another species of fish that I have found to be shrimp safe, along with khuli loaches.

Almost any tetra or danio I would avoid with shrimp since they are quick movers and will go for anything moving they think is food. Also don't trust Sparkling or Croaking Gouramis with shrimp, I once watched some of mine gang up and tear a cherry shrimp apart, since they where to small to eat it in one gulp.

Other fish I have found to be shrimp safe be it with Cherry Shrimp or some of our smaller native shrimp are threadfin rainbows, Spotted Blue Eyes and Pacific Blue Eyes. My Guppies and Endlers seem to leave shrimp alone as do the Bristlenoses, Khuli loaches, Dwarf Chain Loaches, Corydoras and Borneo Suckers.

Ideally when mixing fish with shrimp I have found it best to get the shrimp established and settled in first ( if the species is suitable even breeding) before introducing some "safe" (no fish is 100% certain to never eat a shrimp or shrimplet) fish. That way hopefully if there is any predation the shrimp are already a strong enough colony to withstand the odd shrimp being snacked on.

If you don't end up getting loaches or otocinclus but still want / need something to clean the glass nerite snails are good algea eaters and cant successfully breed in fresh water, although that wont stop them laying eggs all over the place.

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Hi Baccus,

Thank you for sharing your experiences with tank mates for shrimps. Good info ... Much appreciated. 

D

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Another fish I have found to be relatively shrimp safe especially once they got past the novelty of having shrimp in the tank are Dwarf Neon Rainbows. They are a stunning fish and are eye catching and would also keep kids interested due to their colour and size along with activity levels. When I first dumped some black cherry shrimp into the tank the Dwarf Neon Rainbows did have the odd go at them (mostly I think  because they are accustomed to me dumping nets of mozzie wrigglers into the tank) but now after a few months I regularly see cherry shrimp blissfully swimming and creeping about the tank and the Dwarf Neon Rainbows paying them no attention and the shrimp numbers have been increasing in the tank too.

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  • 1 year later...
On 3/13/2018 at 9:51 PM, Baccus said:

Another fish I have found to be relatively shrimp safe especially once they got past the novelty of having shrimp in the tank are Dwarf Neon Rainbows. They are a stunning fish and are eye catching and would also keep kids interested due to their colour and size along with activity levels. When I first dumped some black cherry shrimp into the tank the Dwarf Neon Rainbows did have the odd go at them (mostly I think  because they are accustomed to me dumping nets of mozzie wrigglers into the tank) but now after a few months I regularly see cherry shrimp blissfully swimming and creeping about the tank and the Dwarf Neon Rainbows paying them no attention and the shrimp numbers have been increasing in the tank too.

Hey @Baccus, I know it’s been over a year since u posted this, but I’m looking for a colourful, relatively large and active (yet still shrimp safe!) fish to replace my Apistogramma Njisseni pair, whom I fear will soon be able to eat my shrimp very easily (if they aren’t already the reason I can’t find 3 of my shrimp!).

Do you still recommend dwarf neon rainbows? And what’s the minimum group size I can keep them in for them to be happy, a pair, a trio, or a larger school?

Cheers!

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Melanotaenia praecox seem like a good candidate for shrimp. They almost never feed off the bottom, and are a mid to high swimmer. 

These fish do best in groups of 10 or more. Minimum 5. Always have more females than males. How large is your tank?

 

12 hours ago, Crabclaw said:

Apistogramma Njisseni pair, whom I fear will soon be able to eat my shrimp very easily (if they aren’t already the reason I can’t find 3 of my shrimp!)

? Oh no, get the Apistos out now. 

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1 minute ago, jayc said:

? Oh no, get the Apistos out now. 

Awww I wanted to try breeding them ? Their parents were wild-caught so they look really beautiful... could I still technically sell them as a breeding pair even if they haven't bred? (They've been showing signs of courting but that's all)

 

4 minutes ago, jayc said:

Melanotaenia praecox seem like a good candidate for shrimp. They almost never feed off the bottom, and are a mid to high swimmer. 

These fish do best in groups of 10 or more. Minimum 5. Always have more females than males. How large is your tank?

Cool! Tank is 29 gal (110 L), will measure length tonight. Is that large enough for a small group?

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5 hours ago, Crabclaw said:

could I still technically sell them as a breeding pair even if they haven't bred?

I didn't mean sell them, just give them their own tank.

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No, I know, but I can’t start any more tanks at the moment, I'm about to move so don’t need any more hassle in the process. Luckily an employee at the store I got them from is breeding the wild parents still, so after I'm settled I may grab some more. I’m looking at my next tank being a native only tank, though, so the apistos might have to wait.

How do you think the praecox may fare in my 110L though? Just measured and it’s 79x38x38cm (LxWxH). Attached is an awful photo of the tank.

image.jpg

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27 minutes ago, Crabclaw said:

How do you think the praecox may fare in my 110L though?

That looks perfect for 5-6 Praecox. 

 

I see the Njisseni there in the centre, loud and proud. Beautiful fish.

 

Give the shrimp more ground cover like low plants and leaf litter. That will give them a chance to evade the apisto.  And it will look more like an amazon biotope to boot.

Edited by jayc
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Wait so is that supporting the apisto or no? ?

10 minutes ago, jayc said:

Give the shrimp more ground cover like low plants and leaf litter. That will give them a chance to evade the apisto.  And it will look more like an amazon biotope to boot.

I’ll be rescaping the tank when I replace the substrate. Was considering doing some dwarf hair grass maybe? It would look great with the AquaIron and would provide some ground cover.

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15 minutes ago, jayc said:

That looks perfect for 5-6 Praecox. 

Nice. I prefer 5 as a number (don’t ask, I’m weird with my amounts of fish ?) but would 6 be better? If so, would I try to get a 50/50 M/F or 4 and 2 females to males? Of course, this all depends if they're showing their colouration clearly enough that I can tell their sex by their fin colours. We’ll see... I know that my rlfs stocks them though.

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1 hour ago, Crabclaw said:

Wait so is that supporting the apisto or no?

I like Apistos, always have a soft spot for them. I used to keep a few as well.

But never with shrimp. 

If you are going to keep them in the tank, we need to increase the hiding places for the shrimp.

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Well I sort of just want to keep them until they breed, then I can raise some of their babies. And I don’t love when my shrimp are hiding, all the other inhabitants we’re more active without the apistos. They bully my Bristlenoses especially. So I think I’ll add more cover, but won’t keep the adult apistos heaps longer.

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