breeding Neocaridina davidi shrimp of different colors

[Dimos]

Hi everyone!

I was wondering what is the right way to breed different colors of Neocaridina Davidi. I saw there can be red color (Red Cherry Shrimp), Blue Velvet, Neon Yellow, Orange. Is the right way to keep each color in a separate tank? Or maybe have a separator in the tank? I guess if different colors breed the shrimplets will be mixed colors, right?

Thanks a bunch and excuse me for the silly questions, I am new to Shrimp keeping/breeding!

Dimos

Edited September 23, 2016 by Dimos

[revolutionhope]

Hi Dimos,

In short - interbreeding different colours of neos results in a fair number of wild reversions which are not colourful. Interesting results will occur but people consistently report difficulties stabilising any new variety from such a cross.

Regarding dividers vs seperate tanks and there are many pros and cons to both! I'm currently working on 2x divided 4 foot tanks connected to a sump. I'm using fine weave fly/insect screen for the divisions.

More water volume is always helpful as it means more stability but having seperate bodies of water is helpful for managing diseases and other troubles. Hope I've helped to answer your questions.

Love n peace

Will

[Mr. F]

The simplest and most effective way I've found to make dividers is with a glass panel with a couple 2-3" holes drilled and some small pieces of 30-40 ppi reticulated foam shoved in to regulate water flow but also keep shrimp separate . Alternatively you can use glass panels that don't reach all the way to the back of the tank and put a couple corner HMFs to the back (one on either side).

[Zoidburg]

Without knowing the shrimps genetics, it's kind of hard to determine what the offspring will look like.

 

Blood Mary x Painted Fire Red results in red offspring. I do not know how the offspring compare to either parent's coloration.

 

To that extent, I would assume that breeding Blue Dreams to Blue Velvets may also result in blue offspring.

 

However, when it comes to mixing separate colors.... it's really a crapshoot. If both mutations are recessive, and neither one is co-dominant, then offspring should, in theory, be brown. There's a breeder who keeps a mixed tank of Neo's and says he hardly ever gets any brown offspring. He has gotten some unique colorations, too. This includes purple, yellow rili with red spots, and others. Tank does have blue, red, yellow, orange and rili shrimp in it. Possibly even blue pearl and snowballs?

It's interesting to see the colors!

[Mr. F]

Without knowing the shrimps genetics, it's kind of hard to determine what the offspring will look like.

 

Blood Mary x Painted Fire Red results in red offspring. I do not know how the offspring compare to either parent's coloration.

 

To that extent, I would assume that breeding Blue Dreams to Blue Velvets may also result in blue offspring.

 

However, when it comes to mixing separate colors.... it's really a crapshoot. If both mutations are recessive, and neither one is co-dominant, then offspring should, in theory, be brown. There's a breeder who keeps a mixed tank of Neo's and says he hardly ever gets any brown offspring. He has gotten some unique colorations, too. This includes purple, yellow rili with red spots, and others. Tank does have blue, red, yellow, orange and rili shrimp in it. Possibly even blue pearl and snowballs?

It's interesting to see the colors!

Who are you referring to? Id like to see purple neos! And also yellow with red?! I kept a tank of cherries, goldback, and orange Sakura for a while and just sold the whole lot to someone on a different forum. They threw mostly reds and oranges as well as some interesting green neos for a few generations, although they didn't stabilize and just ended up breeding out yellows.

You'll notice there are a couple brown shrimp in there. Surprised I had only a few as I added in ransoms when I had them (pearls, velvets, red rilis, Orange rilis, etc)

[Zoidburg]

Lucas Bretz. I don't know if he has any photos anywhere other than on FB... He does have Youtube as well.

 

This is his Youtube channel

https://www.youtube.com/user/lbknuggs

Which has a link to his own FB group where he documents what's going on in his fish/shrimp room.

 

Some photos of his.

 

 

Lucas mentioned he also has two tanks of "wild" neos, and they aren't necessarily just brown. They can have green, blue, red or yellow hues to them.

 

 

I came across someone who kept yellows with cherries. All offspring brown/wild type.

I kept a couple of yellows (a 'pair') with a small cherry colony and so far, I've only gotten red or yellow offspring. Granted, the yellow adults are gone now, and I haven't seen any yellow offspring make it to adult-hood, so I don't think I have any yellows left?

Someone else had a yellow female with male cherry, and has gotten brown/black, dark blue (almost black with cream stripe), and even cherries with a yellow hue to them.

[Dimos]

Thanks guys, that's an interesting topic!

By the way I just ordered more Red Cherries and some Neon Yellows ! So I will just put a divider in my tank, I can find on Amazon for $10:

https://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Divider-System-10-Gallon-Tanks/dp/B0002APS2S/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1474962179&sr=8-7&keywords=aquarium+divider

I hope its good, will try it before the shrimp comes! I wish it was transparent though...

[Mr. F]

Thanks guys, that's an interesting topic!

By the way I just ordered more Red Cherries and some Neon Yellows ! So I will just put a divider in my tank, I can find on Amazon for $10:

https://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Divider-System-10-Gallon-Tanks/dp/B0002APS2S/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1474962179&sr=8-7&keywords=aquarium+divider

I hope its good, will try it before the shrimp comes! I wish it was transparent though...

I ordered those dividers for the same purpose and didn't end up keeping them. They are clear in the middle with either black or teal ends, but the clear part is a plastic sheet with tiny holes in it, large enough to let shrimplets pass through unfortunately. :/

[Dimos]

2 minutes ago, Mr. F said:

I ordered those dividers for the same purpose and didn't end up keeping them. They are clear in the middle with either black or teal ends, but the clear part is a plastic sheet with tiny holes in it, large enough to let shrimplets pass through unfortunately. :/

Oh, thanks for letting me know! What if you put a super thin net above? Also, we you able to put a hood above the divider? 

[Mr. F]

Oh, thanks for letting me know! What if you put a super thin net above? Also, we you able to put a hood above the divider? 

The screen might work but you'll need a lot of very fine screen. I had considered using some plexiglass or glass covering most of the holes toward the bottom to prevent shrimplets from passing when they're really really small still. Once they get past a certain size, they'd be fine. I ended up not going with that, trashed the idea and kept the 10 unseparated. Instead I'm gonna build a rack of 3x (or 4x) 20Ls split into 3 with the HMFs, as mentioned above.

They sit inside a 10g just under the rim, so it can work with any hood really.

[Dimos]

I already got the divider and I want to add a tulle mesh to cover the holes. The tulle mesh is synthetic, so so you think its OK to have a synthetic material in the shrimp tank?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tulle-Fine-Mesh-6-X25yd-Spool-White/40873258

Thanks,
Dimos

[Cleeon]

interesting discussion, so till now the only way is still from selective breeding only ?

[Mr. F]

I already got the divider and I want to add a tulle mesh to cover the holes. The tulle mesh is synthetic, so so you think its OK to have a synthetic material in the shrimp tank?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Tulle-Fine-Mesh-6-X25yd-Spool-White/40873258
Thanks,
Dimos

Omg it's so cheap! Idk if it's okay, tulle mesh can be treated with coatings to give it shine or color. Maybe it's worth a test at that price tho.

[jayc]

On 06/10/2016 at 6:19 AM, Dimos said:

OK to have a synthetic material in the shrimp tank?

That won't last long in an aquarium.

The material will eventually degrade and tear. Just be careful and check for issues regularly, if you choose to use it.

Edited October 7, 2016 by jayc

[Dimos]

OK I ended up sewing a filter foam on the divider and it works perfectly so far! Red Cherries on the left and Neon Yellow on the right. I'm not really happy with the divider, since the shrimp was able to pass from the side and I had to add foam on the sides also.

Let me know what you think!

Thanks

Edited October 9, 2016 by fishmosy

[Zoidburg]

Those links don't work... it's private data. 

[Dimos]

oops sorry, here are the pics:

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2016 by Dimos

[Mr. F]

Nice work!

[Dimos]

20 minutes ago, Mr. F said:

Nice work!

Thanks! It doesn't look that pretty (as my gf said), but at least nothing passes at the other side! Maybe a next attempt will be to have a foam (as others suggested) and make a frame all around. However you also need to add foam at the sides above the frame (where it touches the tank glass) because the shrimps are able to pass through the small gap between the frame and the tank!

Or maybe just add a plain foam! If it is strong enough it will stay there!

[Dimos]

On 10/6/2016 at 9:52 AM, Cleeon said:

interesting discussion, so till now the only way is still from selective breeding only ?

So they say it is complicated to mix species. In addition, I would like to start selling my extra shrimps and you need to be clear on the color of the shrimp you are selling. Not sure if buyers would prefer a mixture.

[Zoidburg]

Have you considered using Facebook, Flickr (if you have a Yahoo account, you've got Flickr), Photobucket, or some other image hosting website to upload pics to and share from there? Third link still doesn't work. Again, it's private.

 

To be clear, the different colors of Neos are all one species, Neocaridina davidi... except for Snowball, Blueberry and Blue Pearl. (the 3 most common color morphs) Those 3 colors are actually a separate species, belong to Neocaridina palmata. The two can easily hybridize.

[Dimos]

2 minutes ago, Zoidburg said:

Have you considered using Facebook, Flickr (if you have a Yahoo account, you've got Flickr), Photobucket, or some other image hosting website to upload pics to and share from there? Third link still doesn't work. Again, it's private.

 

To be clear, the different colors of Neos are all one species, Neocaridina davidi... except for Snowball, Blueberry and Blue Pearl. (the 3 most common color morphs) Those 3 colors are actually a separate species, belong to Neocaridina palmata. The two can easily hybridize.

Yes, I'll upload somewhere. However it is temporary just to show you guys.

Yes, I know they are all same species. But what will you get if you breed reds with yellows, or oranges with blues? I would prefer to breed same colors so that to sell my extra shrimp of *same color*.

Here you go:

[Kaylenna]

If you mix them, even if you get decent looking shrimp, most people would be cautious about buying them and they'd be worth less than whatever the original separate colors were worth.

[Zoidburg]

There are the low grade cherry shrimp, the mid grade sakura shrimp to fire reds, and the high grade painted fire reds. If you breed these with bloody mary shrimp (from the chocolate line), you get red offspring. The first 3 colors, the shell is red, the flesh is clear. The BM line, the shell is clear but the flesh is red. Bred together, I suspect you get something in-between, if not both.

As for the other colors... well, it varies. You could get wild colored offspring, or you might get something else. There are so many different strains and not all of them breed true. There are at least two strains of yellows... Neon Yellow and Goldenback Yellow. At least one of them has the ability to occasionally throw green shrimp offspring. I hear that Blue Diamonds and Blue Carbon Rilis can throw red, black, blue and chocolate offspring.

 

It's pretty much that unless you are willing to do a mixed tank, or set up tanks to breed pairs in, you may never know for sure. Even if you do, your results may be different than someone else who does the same setup.

[Dimos]

3 minutes ago, Kaylenna said:

If you mix them, even if you get decent looking shrimp, most people would be cautious about buying them and they'd be worth less than whatever the original separate colors were worth.

Exactly, that's my point!

3 minutes ago, Zoidburg said:

There are the low grade cherry shrimp, the mid grade sakura shrimp to fire reds, and the high grade painted fire reds. If you breed these with bloody mary shrimp (from the chocolate line), you get red offspring. The first 3 colors, the shell is red, the flesh is clear. The BM line, the shell is clear but the flesh is red. Bred together, I suspect you get something in-between, if not both.

As for the other colors... well, it varies. You could get wild colored offspring, or you might get something else. There are so many different strains and not all of them breed true. There are at least two strains of yellows... Neon Yellow and Goldenback Yellow. At least one of them has the ability to occasionally throw green shrimp offspring. I hear that Blue Diamonds and Blue Carbon Rilis can throw red, black, blue and chocolate offspring.

 

It's pretty much that unless you are willing to do a mixed tank, or set up tanks to breed pairs in, you may never know for sure. Even if you do, your results may be different than someone else who does the same setup.

First I got low grade cherry shrimp and then Sakura Fire Red Cherries from Aquatic Arts. By the way, the shrimps look really good and their store's service is excellent!

So, let's see what you get when you mix low grade red cherries with medium! :)