Co2 in a shrimp tank

[Dimos]

Hi everyone,

I installed a Co2 system in my shrimp tank (you can see it on the left, although not activate at that time). Plants really grow more after I installed. However, I heard that you shouldn't leave the Co2 running when there is no light, because there is no photosynthesis happening and something toxic from the Co2 might kill the shrimp. So, I heard that you can either turn it off every night (pain, because I have to take out the tubes and turn the bottles around so that Co2 is not passing through), or add an air stone which provides oxygen and is safe when you have Co2 in the dark.

Do you agree with that? Is it safe to leave Co2 open (though very small amount) overnight, when you have an air stone?

Thanks,
Dimos

[jayc]

Hi @Dimos

welcome to SKF.

What kind of CO2 system do you have?

Do you have a tank/cylinder with a regulator?

What you need is to get an  Electronic Solenoid Valve (For Automatic ON/OFF function).

Hook this up to a timer and your CO2 will turn on during the day, and turn off at night.

 

But looking at the plants in your tank, there is no need for CO2 with the amount of plants you have. Yes, they will grow faster, but you need to be supplementing fertilisers as well. The faster they grow the more cutting you need to do.

 

[Dimos]

39 minutes ago, jayc said:

Hi @Dimos

welcome to SKF.

What kind of CO2 system do you have?

Do you have a tank/cylinder with a regulator?

What you need is to get an  Electronic Solenoid Valve (For Automatic ON/OFF function).

Hook this up to a timer and your CO2 will turn on during the day, and turn off at night.

 

But looking at the plants in your tank, there is no need for CO2 with the amount of plants you have. Yes, they will grow faster, but you need to be supplementing fertilisers as well. The faster they grow the more cutting you need to do.

 

Thanks jay!

I have a simple DIY kit, which works great so far! I also have a bubble counter to control the rate.

Not sure if the Electronic Solenoid Valve  will work. The kit has a screw which adjusts the rate and I could turn it off from there, but the pressure increases if it is closed and it might blow up! That's why I take it out manually.

 

 

47 minutes ago, jayc said:

Hi @Dimos

welcome to SKF.

What kind of CO2 system do you have?

Do you have a tank/cylinder with a regulator?

What you need is to get an  Electronic Solenoid Valve (For Automatic ON/OFF function).

Hook this up to a timer and your CO2 will turn on during the day, and turn off at night.

 

But looking at the plants in your tank, there is no need for CO2 with the amount of plants you have. Yes, they will grow faster, but you need to be supplementing fertilisers as well. The faster they grow the more cutting you need to do.

 

I just noticed about the plants you mentioned. I read that the babytears and the Flame moss need Co2. Does this mean that if I have many plants (Anacharis are the lots of plants in the background) there is no need for Co2 in the plants that require it?

Edited September 21, 2016 by Dimos

[jayc]

If you have many plants,  then you need co2. But you dont have many plants,  so its not necessary yet.  The plants will do better with co2, but not at the expense of the shrimp.

Moss don't need co2 to do well. Flame Moss can go nuts without co2. Co2 just makes it go nuts faster. 

The solenoid isn't going to work on diy setups.

 

[bluestarfish]

You could try a three way valve, then you'd have input, output(into the tank) and an exhaust to switch to at night so that your bottles don't burst.

 

I can't give real feedback, but I agree with Jayc, co2 for what you currently have in there is overkill. I've got a pile of plants in my tank that are doing fine with just fish poop and the occasional addition of liquid co2.

[Dimos]

19 hours ago, bluestarfish said:

You could try a three way valve, then you'd have input, output(into the tank) and an exhaust to switch to at night so that your bottles don't burst.

 

I can't give real feedback, but I agree with Jayc, co2 for what you currently have in there is overkill. I've got a pile of plants in my tank that are doing fine with just fish poop and the occasional addition of liquid co2.

It makes sense, I don't have many plants that require Co2, so there is not much photosynthesis going on. That would probably be a threat for the shrimp. I lost one recently and I am not sure if it is related to Co2, or not. The water conditions are perfect.

Also, do you think Red Cherries like air stones? I got one which gives many bubbles. Do they rather prefer calm water?

[jayc]

5 hours ago, Dimos said:

Do they rather prefer calm water?

An air stone is fine. 

[Kaylenna]

7 hours ago, Dimos said:

It makes sense, I don't have many plants that require Co2, so there is not much photosynthesis going on. That would probably be a threat for the shrimp. I lost one recently and I am not sure if it is related to Co2, or not. The water conditions are perfect.

Also, do you think Red Cherries like air stones? I got one which gives many bubbles. Do they rather prefer calm water?

All live plants "require" CO₂, but I think what Jayc meant is that at the density and with the types of plants you have in the tank, additional CO₂ is  not necessary.  If there's not much photosynthesis going on, your plants will die - basically starve to death.

Some of my shrimp tanks have DIY CO₂, but they also have a much higher density of plants than yours.

It's always a balancing act - putting in the right amounts of all the ingredients needed to make your mini-ecosystem function.

 

[jayc]

1 hour ago, Kaylenna said:

I think what Jayc meant is that at the density and with the types of plants you have in the tank, additional CO₂ is  not necessary

Yep, that's what I mean.

There will be enough CO2 naturally in the water for that small amount of plants.

 

There is nothing wrong with adding some CO2. But, Dimos, if you want to control it, then you need the right equipment - regulator with a solenoid valve.

[Dimos]

On 9/21/2016 at 4:31 PM, bluestarfish said:

 

3 hours ago, Kaylenna said:

All live plants "require" CO₂, but I think what Jayc meant is that at the density and with the types of plants you have in the tank, additional CO₂ is  not necessary.  If there's not much photosynthesis going on, your plants will die - basically starve to death.

Some of my shrimp tanks have DIY CO₂, but they also have a much higher density of plants than yours.

It's always a balancing act - putting in the right amounts of all the ingredients needed to make your mini-ecosystem function.

 

I know the issue if there is no photosynthesis, but I mean during the night there is no photosynthesis because there is no light. Thus, the Co2 might harm the shrimp. During the day that I have the plant growth lamp on, there is photosynthesis of course.

Anyways, thanks for your advice Kaylenna. I actually installed the Co2 system because I read that Babytears *requires* Co2, otherwise it will die.

This is what the seller said about the item (baby tears Hemianthus callitrichoides ):

"this plant need co2 set up and high lighting 

difficulty level   high"

 

Everything is doing well so far!

On 9/21/2016 at 4:31 PM, bluestarfish said:

You could try a three way valve, then you'd have input, output(into the tank) and an exhaust to switch to at night so that your bottles don't burst.

 

I can't give real feedback, but I agree with Jayc, co2 for what you currently have in there is overkill. I've got a pile of plants in my tank that are doing fine with just fish poop and the occasional addition of liquid co2.

What do you mean its an overkill? 

Edited September 23, 2016 by Dimos

[Dimos]

1 hour ago, jayc said:

Yep, that's what I mean.

There will be enough CO2 naturally in the water for that small amount of plants.

 

There is nothing wrong with adding some CO2. But, Dimos, if you want to control it, then you need the right equipment - regulator with a solenoid valve.

Great, I will look for a 3-way selonoid valve to send the co2 on the air when I don't want it to go in the tank. Remember, in the DIY kit if you turn the valve off the pressure keeps increasing dangerously.

Thanks folks!

[Kaylenna]

6 hours ago, Dimos said:

I actually installed the Co2 system because I read that Babytears *requires* Co2, otherwise it will die.

If everything else is fine, it won't die... it just won't grow the way you probably intended.  Most people use baby tears as a carpet.  VERY little carpets decently without a high-tech setup.  This probably contributes to why most shrimp tanks don't have carpets.

I assure you, it'll grow... it's practically a weed in my tank.  I started with a tiny bit that was a hitch-hiker on some other plants.  In 1 month, it grew to 10x that much and was shading the stuff around it.  It's rather leggy and kinda goofy looking because I'd never intended to have it at all.

[bluestarfish]

12 hours ago, Dimos said:

 

What do you mean its an overkill? 

 

 

I mean exactly what I and everyone else meant. It's more than you currently need.

There is already enough CO2 in the water before CO2 injection.

 

If you're getting plants that need it, then fine, but with just anacharis it's unnecessary.

[Dimos]

11 hours ago, Kaylenna said:

If everything else is fine, it won't die... it just won't grow the way you probably intended.  Most people use baby tears as a carpet.  VERY little carpets decently without a high-tech setup.  This probably contributes to why most shrimp tanks don't have carpets.

I assure you, it'll grow... it's practically a weed in my tank.  I started with a tiny bit that was a hitch-hiker on some other plants.  In 1 month, it grew to 10x that much and was shading the stuff around it.  It's rather leggy and kinda goofy looking because I'd never intended to have it at all.

That's great, thanks! Do you have any photo of it? Mine does not grow much, probably I didn't plant it properly?

 

[Madmerv]

Hi Dimos

I dont run CO2 in my tanks and i have plenty of plant growth. It may be slower but with a little bit of Dino Spit and some light fertilizing all seem be be doing ok.

Here is a shot of my flame moss and babytears. (MC)

 

 

 

 

You can clearly see the MC putting out shoots under the sand and spreading nicely. I will be giving it a trim today to remove the leaves that got a bit burned when i had it sitting on a plate while planting.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Madmerv

[Dimos]

10 hours ago, Madmerv said:

Hi Dimos

I dont run CO2 in my tanks and i have plenty of plant growth. It may be slower but with a little bit of Dino Spit and some light fertilizing all seem be be doing ok.

Here is a shot of my flame moss and babytears. (MC)

 

 

 

 

You can clearly see the MC putting out shoots under the sand and spreading nicely. I will be giving it a trim today to remove the leaves that got a bit burned when i had it sitting on a plate while planting.

wow it looks pretty!

Mine looked like this when I got it:

 

And now its like that, it doesn't really expand:

https://goo.gl/photos/3FMRUB4s9LuD6K998

 

 

[Kaylenna]

His looks much better than mine!  But then, I'd torn out all of mine recently and it's still resettling itself.

It looks like you've lost a fair bit of your original plants.  Perhaps they had issues early on?  Give it a few more weeks and if the few sprouts you've got left grow up and tall, push/pin/weight them down so that they're sideways.  They should make roots along the length of the stem and then shoots at each node.  You MAY need a bit more light if you want it to carpet prettily like Madmerv's.  Also... it tends to root better with a finer substrate (like Madmerv's sand).

[Madmerv]

2 hours ago, Kaylenna said:

Push/pin/weight them down so that they're sideways.  They should make roots along the length of the stem and then shoots at each node.  You MAY need a bit more light if you want it to carpet prettily like Madmerv's.  Also... it tends to root better with a finer substrate (like Madmerv's sand).

You are correct about the light there Kaylenna. I have been having issues with the amount of light in this tank and algae growth, as you can see on the rocks in the background. I picked up a secondhand pure white LED panel for the tank and my  photo period is down to 6 hours now so you may tell that the light is pretty strong.

What light set up do you have Dimos?

Just to throw my 2c worth in on your main question. Plenty of people run CO2 24 hours a day and for an inhabited tank run an airstone during the lights off period. It helps to gas off the CO2 and keeps O2 high enough for the fish/shrimp. I even run an airstone in my community tank during the night, on a timer that turns off 2 hours before lights on (in the hope of building up some CO2) and if i check the tank with a torch the shrimp are swimming in the bubbles. That would be much cheaper than a solenoid if you have the air pump/equipment.

[Dimos]

12 hours ago, Kaylenna said:

His looks much better than mine!  But then, I'd torn out all of mine recently and it's still resettling itself.

It looks like you've lost a fair bit of your original plants.  Perhaps they had issues early on?  Give it a few more weeks and if the few sprouts you've got left grow up and tall, push/pin/weight them down so that they're sideways.  They should make roots along the length of the stem and then shoots at each node.  You MAY need a bit more light if you want it to carpet prettily like Madmerv's.  Also... it tends to root better with a finer substrate (like Madmerv's sand).

Yes, they were quite weak from the beginning. I will try turning them sideways and cover them with something. My current light setup is the fluorescent ZooMed Flora Sun light.

10 hours ago, Madmerv said:

You are correct about the light there Kaylenna. I have been having issues with the amount of light in this tank and algae growth, as you can see on the rocks in the background. I picked up a secondhand pure white LED panel for the tank and my  photo period is down to 6 hours now so you may tell that the light is pretty strong.

What light set up do you have Dimos?

Just to throw my 2c worth in on your main question. Plenty of people run CO2 24 hours a day and for an inhabited tank run an airstone during the lights off period. It helps to gas off the CO2 and keeps O2 high enough for the fish/shrimp. I even run an airstone in my community tank during the night, on a timer that turns off 2 hours before lights on (in the hope of building up some CO2) and if i check the tank with a torch the shrimp are swimming in the bubbles. That would be much cheaper than a solenoid if you have the air pump/equipment.

What LED light do you have? Something like this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Finnex-Planted-Automated-Aquarium-Controller/dp/B00U0HN1DG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1474742485&sr=8-3&keywords=led%2Blight%2Baquarium&th=1

 

My current light setup is the fluorescent ZooMed Flora Sun light. Maybe I will need an upgrade? It is supposed to be a good light for plant growth! To be honest, plants grow slowly under this light. Only the anacharis grows super fast.

Regarding the Co2, I heard you can do that with the airstone. I tried it (having Co2 overnight at low, with an airstone on) and next day in the morning I found a dead shrimp. So, I will not risk it again.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Dimos

[Madmerv]

4 hours ago, Dimos said:

What LED light do you have? Something like this one?

https://www.amazon.com/Finnex-Planted-Automated-Aquarium-Controller/dp/B00U0HN1DG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1474742485&sr=8-3&keywords=led%2Blight%2Baquarium&th=1

 

My current light setup is the fluorescent ZooMed Flora Sun light.

Regarding the Co2, I heard you can do that with the airstone. I tried it (having Co2 overnight at low, with an airstone on) and next day in the morning I found a dead shrimp. So, I will not risk it again.

There is no sticker on my light but i think it is an UpAqua LED Z 18". There is only 10 white LED lights for the panel, no colours, no controller. It is either on or off. The one you linked would be a huge improvement over what i have. The light you already have should be fine unless you really wanted to make the tank flash with sunrise, sunset, moonlight etc. Just remember you can get a really nice looking tank with the basics or you can spend thousands (even tens of thousands) for something that only aquarium enthusiasts will really appreciate. It's up to you and your budget. My LED came with a package of goodies off gumtree so would have cost me $20.

 

[jayc]

Might be a tip for you, them again you might already know this ....

 

When I  buy plants, its usually a small amount cause im a miser ?

So what I do is try to multiply the plant as fast as possible. Instead of planting it in the tank with the fishes or shrimp, who will limit your amount of fertilizer & CO2 you  can pump into the plants, ... what I do is place the new plants into a separate  standalone container (something  with a lid to stop dirt getting in). In this container,  i will pump in 4 times the usual amount of CO2 and fertilizer and run the lights close to 20 hours. 

You will see a measly clump of plant grow in no time,  allowing for splitting  and re propagation. 

Edited September 25, 2016 by jayc
fixed up some autocorrect fail

[Kaylenna]

7 hours ago, Madmerv said:

Just remember you can get a really nice looking tank with the basics or you can spend thousands (even tens of thousands) for something that only aquarium enthusiasts will really appreciate.

Boy... that's an understatement!   That's assuming the expensive stuff actually does what it claims. 

But he's absolutely right.  Don't stress about any one specific thing (light, CO₂, water conditions, ferts, etc).  Try analyzing all the little components and pick one to slowly adjust and see if you get some results without investing in new gear first.

7 hours ago, jayc said:

what I do is pave the new pants into a separate  standalone container (something  with a lid to stop dirt gettingin). In this container,  i will pump in 4 times the usual amount of CO2 and fertilizer and run the lights close to 20 hours.

That's what I'd planned to do come summer - so I can have it outside.  I'm pretty sure my husband isn't going to agree to yet another tank inside!  And the current indoor tanks are all overfull.

[Dimos]

17 hours ago, Madmerv said:

There is no sticker on my light but i think it is an UpAqua LED Z 18". There is only 10 white LED lights for the panel, no colours, no controller. It is either on or off. The one you linked would be a huge improvement over what i have. The light you already have should be fine unless you really wanted to make the tank flash with sunrise, sunset, moonlight etc. Just remember you can get a really nice looking tank with the basics or you can spend thousands (even tens of thousands) for something that only aquarium enthusiasts will really appreciate. It's up to you and your budget. My LED came with a package of goodies off gumtree so would have cost me $20.

 

Yours looks good!

Once I got a LED light for my fish tank and it was extremely dim, that's why I'm having doubts about the LED. I know if you pay a lot it can be really strong, but mine was quite expensive too, around $60. I don't remember the brand.

 

18 hours ago, jayc said:

Might be a tip for you, them again you might already know this ....

 

When I  buy plants, its usually a small amount cause im a miser 

So what I do is try to multiply the plant as fast as possible. Instead of planting it in the tank with the fishes or shrimp, who will limit your amount of fertilizer & CO2 you  can pump into the plants, ... what I do is place the new plants into a separate  standalone container (something  with a lid to stop dirt getting in). In this container,  i will pump in 4 times the usual amount of CO2 and fertilizer and run the lights close to 20 hours. 

You will see a measly clump of plant grow in no time,  allowing for splitting  and re propagation. 

That's a clever idea, thanks!

10 hours ago, Kaylenna said:

Boy... that's an understatement!   That's assuming the expensive stuff actually does what it claims. 

But he's absolutely right.  Don't stress about any one specific thing (light, CO₂, water conditions, ferts, etc).  Try analyzing all the little components and pick one to slowly adjust and see if you get some results without investing in new gear first.

That's what I'd planned to do come summer - so I can have it outside.  I'm pretty sure my husband isn't going to agree to yet another tank inside!  And the current indoor tanks are all overfull.

Thanks a lot, will do!