Mysterious disappearances & deaths

[Happy-pitbull]

Oh dear.....

So as the title suggests there is something going on and I dont know what....

Ammonia, nitrites show at 0, nitrates also show 0 but I have the API test kit which is not the best. But I did test a friends water before and did read nitrates in his water so I do know it can work.  

PH 7.0 gH 5 kH 2.  TDS 170

Shrimps are neos, bloody marys. 

I have had the colony since mid may. They were doing awesome all along and there are even 13+ shrimplets in there now and a berried female. 

The thing is my adults are disappearing. I had 8 and can only find like 3 max now.  They dont seem active like they used to either BUT the young shrimps act fine like there is nothing wrong. This morning I found 2 dead adults..... one I knew was dying. He was acting funny and having trouble swimming yesterday sometimes laying on his side. He was a very dark red almost black but he had always been like that. He did have trouble molting a month back I remember.  The other dead one was unexpected. 

I have also noticed all the nematodes that used to be seen on the glass, there were lots of them, are all gone. I cant even see one anymore. But there are lots of limpets and seed shrimp scurrying around. 

I did do a 20% water change almost a week ago, first one ever did on the tank really. With RO water treated with fluval shrimp mineral to bring the ph and gh up to proper levels BUT the shrimp had been acting off before this change..... the shrimp present acted no different when the water change was done. And I hadnt noticed at the time if the nematodes were gone before this water change but something tells me they were already gone.....I can remember the glass looking rather clear and that was why- no nematodes. 

I really am stumped as to whats going on. The baby shrimp act fine all very active and eating. Its the adults that dont seem to move much. And why did the nematodes all suddenly disappear....lack of food maybe from all the new baby shrimp eating everything ? 

..... I dont expect any answers to all this really, but I just dont know what to do ? Im inclined to want to do another water change but then again maybe I shouldnt ? 

:( 

 

 

[KeenShrimp]

Hi @Happy-pitbull,

I found your post intriguing: Apparently fw nematodes die off due to heavy metal poisoning as they are otherwise quite hardy, but are used as pollution indicators ( p250)- link: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=iOI9ifbikoQC&pg=PA248&lpg=PA248&dq=nutritional+requirements+of+aquatic+nematodes&source=bl&ots=rEjpmQ0kw0&sig=ItOV7IRTsNLF17CgDVtV-rKtNLo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwii5ICzyvPNAhWMi5QKHSSmAbsQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=nutritional requirements of aquatic nematodes&f=false

This is a very new tank (2 months)- could you please tell us/ show us everything you have got in your tank?- soil, rocks, wood, ornaments, fasteners, clips, mesh etc? Are you using Tap or RO water? If using Tap, are you using water from the warm tap?, what neutraliser are you using to neutralise heavy metals in the tank? ( assuming you are not using RO)...

It sounds like it might either be something that is IN your tank, or NOT in your tank....once you supply more info, I am sure someone might be able to help you??

[Happy-pitbull]

Hi and thanks so much for your reply, I have attached a few pics. 

Substrate is a mix of flourite and fluval stratum. There are live plants,driftwood, an almond leaf, sponge filter, heater and thermometer in the tank. 2 of the plants are anchored down with what looks like ceramic cylinders which have been in there since day one. I had the tank set up for a few weeks before adding the shrimp and they did fine for the last 2 months. .... until just recently.

2 possibilities cross my mind. As you can see in one of the pics I had used a clay plant dish to feed them in. This is new and was only used a few times. I was told by another shrimp keeper that he had used them and was pretty sure they were safe. Once submerged it did release tiny bubbles for quite some time before stopping. It also has some kind of clear coating on the top section. Maybe this leached a toxin ? 

Also I did my first water change last week. .... maybe I shouldnt have? I used store bought RO water.....bought a brand new empty 5g jug that was next to the RO machine and filled it up.... without rinsing the jug first. Also assumed this water would have no heavy metals or chlorine in it so I didnt use any product in it, except for Fluval Shrimp mineral to raise the gH and TDS. ( I did test along the way to get the levels I wanted )  Maybe there was something else in this water that I don't know about?  Or maybe the new jug had a contaminate in it? Or maybe they didnt like the fluval shrimp mineral product ? 

One question though.... why do the young shrimp seem fine and it only seemed to be the adults that were bothered? 

Things do seem a tad better in there....no one else has been acting strange. Just wondering if I shoulda do another small water change or do I want to risk upsetting things again?  But what if a contaminate is still present?  

So many questions....hrmmmm

PS I also have new shrimp food made specifically for shrimp by Hikari. ... one of the last ingredients states Copper sulfate. ..... 

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Happy-pitbull
Spelling

[KeenShrimp]

Hi @Happy-pitbull,

There are many warnings on the internet about using plant pots and pottery that is not labelled shrimp safe: glazings that pottery is treated with contains an assortment of metals. Your adults might be dying off as metals accumulate in shrimp tissues over time- the small shrimp might just not have been in the tank long enough yet to reach critical levels. I would highly recommend getting that garden pot out ASAP. Some garden pots are safe, some not and it is impossible to tell which one is which. Your shrimp might be fine for a few weeks with that pot in there until the metals reach critical levels again- if this is the case. You will soon enough know if this was the problem if you remove the pot. Glass is as stable as it gets: you can always buy glass lab ware on eBay: glass Petri dishes or watch glasses/beaker covers.

Nothing wrong with water changes- the most common consensus is 10 percent every 2 weeks.

Nice looking tank?

[Happy-pitbull]

@KeenShrimp

Thank you for your reply. 

The pot you speak of is the clay tray as shown in the pic? I only used that for a few days to feed them in and have since removed it and haven't used it since. 

I only started using that item a week ago so it wouldnt have had time to slowly accumulate within the older shrimp as you suggest. But it is something I wont be using again.

But there are 2 small ceramic style weights similar to what would find in a filter for instance. These were used to hold the plants in place and came with the plant when originally purchased. These came from a planted tank at the fish store . Is there a chance these may be leaching something?  

PS. You can see this item in the first pic in the lower left hand corner, the white object the val is stuck in.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Happy-pitbull
Add some details

[KeenShrimp]

@Happy-pitbull, I have no experience with plant weights at all- if in doubt remove them. It is very interesting that your detritus worms have disappeared. They will never starve to death in a tank, so something else is causing it. I cannot find info on any diseases that affect nematodes and shrimp, but not molluscs- this might indicate that it is not disease, but either a deficiency of some sort or a toxin...I am looking forward to seeing what other members reply with.

[Happy-pitbull]

@KeenShrimp  So I just proceeded to remove the plant weights. The roots were encased in a cotton type of material inside this ceramic weight. I guess I should have never of kept them on the plants as it was a pain removing them since they were well rooted into the substrate. 

I forgot to mention I do have a small piece of cactus wood and a few alder cones in there also.  I know the cones are fine and I did soak the cactus wood in hot water for a few days so I assume thats fine also. These items have been in the tank for quite some time.

I did just spot 2 worms on the glass so maybe things will turn around eventually?  I also seen a few adults who looked fine.

But I also spotted this guy....really dark red almost black. One that died this morning looked similar.  Is this a sign of something else going on I wonder ?  This guy was swimming disoriented and didnt act well.

 

 

[KeenShrimp]

@Happy-pitbull, was that dark cherry originally red? Do some of the shrimp have brown spots? Google 'brown spot disease' and check if it matches what you are seeing in the tank. If that dark brown shrimp was red to start off with, he is very sick, if he has always looked like that, then it might be something else-it is hard to see from the photo.

[jayc]

Since starting the tank, have you ever added any Mineral Powder?

https://newbreedaquatics.com.au/boss-mineral-powder-100g.html

or

https://newbreedaquatics.com.au/benibachi-mineral-powder-50g-.html

 

Tech Den also sell 

http://www.thetechden.com.au/Benibachi_Mineral_Powder_50g_p/mp50.htm

http://www.thetechden.com.au/Tantora_Montmorillonite_Powder_50g_p/tmont50.htm

 

Just remeniralising the water with Fluval shrimp minerals during water change doesn't replenish minerals, and can lead to moulting issues when the tank is mature.

 

I suspect moulting issues - that's why only the adults are being affected.

[Happy-pitbull]

@KeenShrimp  from what I can recall they were all a nice red color but I never seen them develop spots . They just seemed to go dark. But I could be wrong as it wasnt something I watched for. I do hope they arent sick with brown spot disease :(

 

@jayc no I have never added any minerals.  In the beginning I used to find molts all the time in the tank and now it is rare.  I did see one of the dark shrimp trying to molt around a month ago. His tail section took forever to molt and never looked right afterwards. 

Do those minerals you mentioned raise the pH ?  I recently purchased Salty Shrimp gH/kH but havent been able to use it as I found it raised my pH too high in my new water. Hence why I used the fluval shrimp mineral.  But maybe this salty shrimp gh/kh stuff wouldn't add the minerals you speak of ? 

http://www.shrimpfever.com/shop/water-management/okazo-pure-mineral-powder-100g/

Would that product work? It doesnt seem to have a dose amount though.  Thats the store I normally buy from since it is in Canada hence why Im asking about that product. 

Edited July 15, 2016 by Happy-pitbull

[Happy-pitbull]

@jayc

I found the Tantora powder on Amazon and just ordered it, should have it next week. Any tips on dosing?  Says to mix with food.

[jayc]

Starting to sound more and more like moulting issues. 

9 hours ago, Happy-pitbull said:

Do those minerals you mentioned raise the pH ?  I recently purchased Salty Shrimp gH/kH but havent been able to use it as I found it raised my pH too high in my new water. Hence why I used the fluval shrimp mineral.  But maybe this salty shrimp gh/kh stuff wouldn't add the minerals you speak of ? 

http://www.shrimpfever.com/shop/water-management/okazo-pure-mineral-powder-100g/

Would that product work? It doesnt seem to have a dose amount though.  Thats the store I normally buy from since it is in Canada hence why Im asking about that product. 

Mineral powder does not change pH.

Salty shrimp adds some minerals but not enough in the long term. 

Supplementing with mineral powder at every other water change is a good idea to maintain the sufficient levels of mineral. 

Dose it in your water change. 

 

[Happy-pitbull]

@jayc  thank you :)

Also, on a side note do you have any experience with Purple Up ? A product used in marine aquariums for coraline algae growth.  I have heard of shrimp keepers dosing with this to also help keep their shrimp healthy. 

 

 

[NoGi]

Haven't heard of it but would be interested in someone here writing up a little review.

[jayc]

1 hour ago, Happy-pitbull said:

Purple Up

 

Caribsea purple up.  I know what it is. 

It contains calcium, strontium, magnesium, and carbonate  also  iodine.

That's all it is,  but it's a marine aquarium product,  and will alter pH drastically as well as KH, if used in a fresh water tank. 

My diy remineralising mix in the "Water parameters" sub forum is a better alternative. I don't mean to brag, at least my diy mix is made with fresh water shrimps in mind, with no unwanted ingredients and ingredients that are useful to shrimp. It will also be cheaper if you can get the raw chemicals in bulk. 

Don't use purple up on your fresh water shrimp tank long term. It will alter your water parameters which will need to be adjusted after. You could use it on a new tank to raise parameters to the right levels though for a neo caridina tank. 

[Happy-pitbull]

@jayc  thanks for the info on the DIY remineralizing mix, I will definitely check that out.

My tank does seem like its stabilizing and the remaining adults appear more normal .  I can't find that dark red guy I showed in a pic above so I dont know if he died or is hiding or molted even, as I do see a fresh molt in there now.

Thanks for the info on the Purple Up. I used to use the stuff years back when I had a nano marine tank, and wasnt sure in its use in a fw shrimp tank. A friend of mine purchased a nano Crystal Red tank from someone who had been big into keeping shrimp, but was moving away so they sold everything cheap.  He got a 3g with amazing looking Crystal reds and tonnes of extras to go with it....all for like  $20 canadian!   

Anyways one of the items he got in this deal was a full size bottle of Purple Up. The guy said he dosed his CCR tank with it during water changes, 3 drops per gallon. It seems to have worked for him as his shrimp are doing awesome.  ( I've attached a picture of his shrimp )

Yesterday I added a few drops to my tank in with some top up water.  The shrimp didnt seem to notice at all and I tested the pH aftetwards and it hadnt changed. So maybe with such low doses it wouldnt effect the pH too much. 

 

[jayc]

3 hours ago, Happy-pitbull said:

I added a few drops to my tank in with some top up water.  The shrimp didnt seem to notice at all and I tested the pH aftetwards and it hadnt changed.

 

Have you got a TDS meter?

Test the TDS reading to make sure you are still within the range for your cherry shrimps, after adding Purple up.

TDS meters can be bought cheaply, so always a good piece of kit to have.

[Happy-pitbull]

@jayc 

I do actually. The TDS was 169 - 170 the other day and today its 169. 

Nothing has changed there. Im actually surprised it didn't go up at all.