Hamburg-Matten Filters

[Kaylenna]

Lol... I was on the page when your reply popped up... was about to hit the BUY button on the 30ppi.  Good to know that's what I should be looking for (as opposed to somewhat blindly buying and hoping).
  Thanks!

[jayc]

6 minutes ago, Kaylenna said:

Good to know that's what I should be looking for

?

 

I wonder if anyone else would like to buy it too, then you could all share the shipping costs.

[Kaylenna]

6 minutes ago, jayc said:

?

I wonder if anyone else would like to buy it too, then you could all share the shipping costs.

YEEESSSS.  I got hung up on the shipping costs... LOL.

If anyone wants to start up a group buy or whatnot, I'm in.  But I think I will have to plod onwards with my original plans for the current tanks - I don't want the shrimpies currently temporarily housed in breeding boxes to be stuck there too long.

There's always the next tank, right??

[inverted]

I run Hamburg matten filters in a few tanks using foam from the local fish shop but you're right @Kaylenna the shrimplets get through it.

if you find a suitable foam that's 25mm thick let me know!

[Kaylenna]

6 hours ago, inverted said:

I run Hamburg matten filters in a few tanks using foam from the local fish shop but you're right @Kaylenna the shrimplets get through it.

if you find a suitable foam that's 25mm thick let me know!

I suppose if you're desperate and have fine SS mesh, you could back the foam with some.  The babies would still get into the foam, but not through.

How do you like your HM filters?  Compared to your other options?

[jayc]

8 hours ago, inverted said:

run Hamburg matten filters in a few tanks using foam from the local fish shop but you're right @Kaylenna the shrimplets get through it.

Is it a 30ppi foam?

[inverted]

Not sure of the ppi.... Shrimplets get through !

I do like Hamburg matten filters just wish I could find a 25mm thick 30ppi foam.

would like to use it as dividers on the new setup 

[Kaylenna]

The idea behind the foam is to have something with very high surface area and a physical barrier (in the case of shrimplets), right?  Can real wool felt be used for this purpose? 

[jayc]

58 minutes ago, Kaylenna said:

Can real wool felt be used for this purpose?

But does it impede water flow?

 

59 minutes ago, Kaylenna said:

The idea behind the foam is to have something with very high surface area and a physical barrier 

... BUT still lets water pass through with relative ease.

[Kaylenna]

It shouldn't impede water flow - think knit sweater, but with much much finer spacing (if irregular, due to the nature of the material).  Or like the usually white polyester fill stuff that usually comes with HoB filter cartridges, often with some carbon sandwiched in it. 

How fine the holes are/the ease of water flow could be controlled to some degree by adjusting the density of the felt.  I make such felt, so fiddling with density is not a problem.  And... the starting material is plentiful - I probably have enough cheap wool to fill a 4ft tank completely with felt.  No worries about chemicals leeching into the water or such.  But it would likely have to be replaced more often than foam since it will eventually degrade.

For that matter... could poly-fill be used?  Possibly attached to fine SS mesh as a baby-proofing.  Or a moss wall all over a SS mesh divider as an inefficient but prettier version? 

Sorry if it's a bit babble-y.  I hate being limited by something as silly as steep shipping costs.

 

[jc12]

15 hours ago, inverted said:

would like to use it as dividers on the new setup 

I wouldn't recommend using them as dividers though. Shrimps are pretty good climbers.

Edited September 19, 2016 by jc12

[Kaylenna]

15 minutes ago, jc12 said:

I wouldn't recommend using them as dividers though. Shrimps are pretty good climbers.

How high out of the water have you seen them go?

[jc12]

Just now, Kaylenna said:

How high out of the water have you seen them go?

3 inches above and 1.6 metres below dead on the floor. :(

[jayc]

18 hours ago, Kaylenna said:

will eventually degrade

That's the main issue with natural fibres. They degrade.

Poly fill is probably better. 

You know the concept of a HMF, it's just a matter to trialling your ideas.

As a mad scientist myself, and I'm always trialling experiments, I say go for it. Give it a go and you might invent something.

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by jayc

[Kaylenna]

3 hours ago, jc12 said:

3 inches above and 1.6 metres below dead on the floor. :(

You'd think something fully aquatic would know better than to creep out into the air that far... but then again, this isn't something with an individual learning curve. 

1 hour ago, jayc said:

That's the main issue with natural fibres. They degrade.

Poly fill is probably better. 

You now the concept of a HMF, it's just a matter to trialling your ideas.

As a mad scientist myself, and I'm always trialling experiments, I say go for it. Give it a go and you might invent something.

Muhahaha... first prototype already done.  Gogo SS mesh and hot glue gun. 

It's a fairly small scale prototype, but since it's for a 10 gallon tank, I thought a full corner or slice of the tank would be a bit of overkill.  I also wanted it to be somewhat mobile and adjustable so I can fiddle with the porous material. 

This iteration is filled with about 3/4 broken ceramic rings, 1/4 loose wool fiber mixed together inside a SS mesh shell (I didn't want to do all wool for this because I didn't know how much it'd compact and risk impeding water flow - the ceramic chunks ensure open areas).  The shell is roughly half-cylinder in shape and is glued around the intake area of an internal filter.  The original filter (rated at 300L/h) was actually fine for the tank and I didn't have any issues with water quality unless I did something stupid (like stir up the substrate waaaay too much), but I've always felt the available surface area for bacterial colonization in those filters to be puny.  As a way to majorly up surface area near good water flow, I think I've succeeded, albeit somewhat inefficiently since the current set up does not guarantee that ALL water flowing through the filter comes in close contact with a hopefully bacteria-ful surface.

I will likely try foam (when I get some) and felt (when I find my previously made scraps or make some fresh, I figure the wool should last a few months at least) and anything else I can find.   I will probably also try for a corner shape next time. 

Comments?  Suggestions? 

I didn't take pictures during the process because it's hard enough to try to make something while herding 3 kids (ie, I forgot).  But here's a couple of shots with it in place, complete with posing shrimp.

[inverted]

8 hours ago, jc12 said:

I wouldn't recommend using them as dividers though. Shrimps are pretty good climbers.

I would silicon a wider piece of glass on top of the divider like this to prevent that happening.

[jayc]

18 hours ago, Kaylenna said:

Comments

Won't shrimp get into the pump?

That is no longer a Hamburg Matten filter. You have created something else ??

Edited September 20, 2016 by jayc

[Kaylenna]

Nope, no shrimpie suicides by pump - the mesh is sealed in on all sides.  I'd originally intended to cover up the normal slits those small internal filters have (which are very much not shrimp proof) with the SS mesh... but I figured I'd enlarge the media compartment and surface area the pump is drawing water from by a lot - creates slower (by still quite noticeable) water flow across a lot more media. 

I was mostly trying to incorporate the benefits of HM into what stuff I already had on hand since I lacked the stuff to make a real HM at the moment.

10 hours ago, inverted said:

I would silicon a wider piece of glass on top of the divider like this to prevent that happening.

Good call - maybe I should add that to my current things... possibly with a lip all the way around the tank itself since my tanks are all open top.

[inverted]

I have some divided tanks already..... For the most part most shrimp species don't climb glass divisions sometime they run up silicon joins. If you had sponge dividers they would definitely climb over. Or even through if it's not dense enough!

[Kaylenna]

How's this?  Basically a mobile corner unit.  It's tiny - only 200L/h, but it's intended as a support filter in my 2ft divided tank (to help make sure there's good circulation and to provide water flow to breeding boxes).  It's basically a triangular pyramid with solid plastic on all by 1 side (mesh) and a hole in the top piece for the filter's head.  Virtually all of the incoming water would have to flow through a 1" layer of wool felt (still waiting on foam). 

[revolutionhope]

That's pretty nifty! Really enjoying this thread.