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Geoff

Berried RCS or Ellobiopsidae?

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Geoff

Hi everyone -

I just set up a 10g planted shrimp tank last week and introduced 25 RCS and 4 mystery snails on Saturday. I noticed one of the shrimp had what I thought were eggs. Some folks on another forum agreed, but then some others thought maybe it was actually ellobiopsidae instead. I couldn't get a definite answer, so I'm hoping some of you fine folks might be able to tell me for sure. I googled ellopbiopsidae and berried shrimp pics and ran a search of it on SKF, but I still can't say for sure what it is.

I tried to upload pictures, but it's not letting me. It's saying I can only upload 1003KB, but my pictures are way under that limit. Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks in advance.

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NoGi

After a couple more posts you should be able to attach photos. In the meantime you can use a photo sharing service like imgur or if you are using tapatalk, it will attach to their server.

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Geoff

Thanks! I do use Tapatalk but hadn't got around to linking into SKF. Let's see if it works!

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jayc

Hey Geoff,

welcome to SKF.

 

Those are definitely not eggs. Its Ellobiopsidae unfortunately.

Luckily, I have an article on it here...

Have a read of it. And add your comments there too.

Treatment is with Formalin.

Which combats protozoan parasites.

Some off the shelf products with Formalin also includes malachite green. That should still work.

  • Fritz Mardel QuICK Cure is one such product.
  • Aquasonic has one too.
  • Kordon Rid Ick Plus also uses the same ingredients.

There must be many more and it's just a matter of finding it at your LFS.

Many are sold as treatment for ich or parasites.

 

Separate the shrimp and treat it with Formalin.

 

Please report back so we have evidence that the treatment works. Lots of close up macro photos will help too. Post this in the Disease and Diagnostics thread so it's all in one location.

Note: this shrimp will eventually die without treatment. But also note that formalin can be an issue for shrimp.

Definitely separate the shrimp before treatment, don't treat the whole tank. Try half dose on the 1st day. Maintain daily 10-15% water changes. And follow it up with full recommended dose for another 2-3days. Once the Ellobiopsidae look like it's gone, change 100% water and observe for another few days.

Edited by jayc
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Geoff

Thanks @jayc!

I did read your article before I joined. I was afraid that it'd be ellobiopsidae after reading it and seeing the pictures but wanted to be 100% sure. I was able to get one of two infected shrimp out of the tank. The other one keeps diving into the java moss.

 

I'll have to see if I can find any of those medications. How long should I treat for? 

I'll post a thread in the disease forum once I get started with treatment. I'll do my best with the pictures, but all I have is my iPhone.

Thanks again for your help and quick response, it's much appreciated.

~Geoff

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jayc
1 minute ago, Geoff said:

How long should I treat for? 

I added more details in my post above.

Good luck.

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Geoff

2 minutes ago, jayc said:

I added more details in my post above.

Good luck.

Thank you so much. I just hope I can get the second one out.

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jayc

Remove your moss, plants an ornaments if you have to.

But catch that infected shrimp. They are very heavy infested. So you need to start treatment asap. 

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Geoff

I have both shrimp isolated. They're in a small tupperware container with some java moss at the moment, but I'm going to set up a small tank with a filter for them this evening. I was unable to find any medications with formalin in any local stores, but I did order some Kordon's Rid Ich from Amazon. It'll be arriving tomorrow, so treatment will begin then. At least the shrimp are separated now, and if I find any more in the coming days that are infected, I'll have the hospital tank running. It'll be better than the tiny tupperware container!

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jayc

The hospital tank sounds good Geoff.

The extra water agitation will be good since Formalin reduces oxygen content in water.

Time to get some close up photos of the shrimp while they are in the container. ?

Edited by jayc
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Geoff

Well one of them didn't make it. I snapped a picture of him quick before removing him. (That's just one shrimp, he's laying on his side. The bottom one is just a reflection on the bare bottom of the tank.)

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Here are some shots of the remaining guy. Hopefully he'll last long enough for the medication to get here.

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Edited by Geoff

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Geoff

No such luck. The second one is gone now, too. I'm not sure if the stress of moving them was too much or if they finally succumbed to the parasites or a combination of both. I'll leave the hospital tank set up in case any more of the shrimp show signs of infection. If they do, at least I'll have something to get them into quickly and I'll have the medicine on hand to start treating them right away. But fingers crossed that everyone stays healthy!

I want to thank you again, @jayc, for the help you've given me. It's much appreciated.

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jayc

@Geoff sorry to hear the news about those two little fellas. They were very heavy infected. I've never seen ones with such a huge growth of ellobiopsids. The shrimp hobby is still small and in it's infancy really. There are still parasites and diseases that we don't have cures for shrimps, unlike the fish hobby, so we all help were possible, I know I try to whenever possible.

But I think we were a bit too late with these two. 

 

I know you are in Stroudsburg - so did you import these shrimp ? and where from? 

Or did you buy them off someone local?

I'm assuming they are newly acquired. Only please don't tell me that you have had these shrimp for many months ... because that means there is something wrong with your water quality. ?

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Geoff

I ordered them from Imperial Tropicals in Florida. I believe they breed most of their stock themselves, but they do import some wild fish according to their website. Not sure about the shrimp. Since RCS are easy to breed, I imagine they breed the shrimp themselves. And they're sold as juveniles. I emailed them about the infected shrimp, if anything just to let them know that there're parasites infecting their shrimp.

And don't worry! I've only had the shrimp for 5 days (since Saturday morning). The tank is a new set up, just for them. I noticed what I thought were eggs on Saturday night (very first picture I posted above of the shrimp on an algae wafer is from Saturday night when I thought they were eggs), but it wasn't until Tuesday that I was told it might be ellobiopsidae. Right after that, I joined SKF in hopes of getting a definite answer, which I did.

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ShrimpP

Sorry to hear :(

Imperial Tropicals does try to breed most of their stock I believe, at least with most of their fish (expect they import some rare exotic fish). Not sure about their shrimps though, but I believe they should breed them themselves since they don't have much variety of those. I believe I read Ellobiopsidae was from birds defecating in outdoor shrimp pools, but mainly a issue only found in Asia? I think I did see a video of their farm that they were raising/breeding Neos outdoors in one of those concrete tubs (I think they have overhead cover, but still possible a bird could fly in).

@jayc Do you recommend sanitizing everything (substrate, decor, tank, water, etc) in the entire tank before ever introducing new shrimp?

I think I've seen some people just remove the infected shrimps and the remaining uninfected shrimp and any new additions were fine. Though I do see it as a risk and I'd personally rather be safe than sorry.

Any idea how long Ellobiopsidae can survive without a host or any new research detailing how it's lifestages, what exactly it does to it's hosts, or any info at all to better understand it?

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jayc
14 hours ago, ShrimpP said:

Do you recommend sanitizing everything (substrate, decor, tank, water, etc) in the entire tank before ever introducing new shrimp?

I assume you mean in a tank that has seen previous infection or parasites?

Yes, always a good idea to sanitise an infected tank as much as possible. However, sometimes this is impractical depending on the individual. I have lots of spare equipment and a hospital tank that I can set up while I clean an infected tank. Most don't have all this excess stuff I have lying around.

If that is the case, then not disturbing the shrimps environment is probably the best. But you take a risk that the infection/parasites might spread. So a lot more monitoring in the next few days is necessary to catch early signs. Remaining shrimp might be alright but it pays to be on the look out.

Not sure on the life cycle of the  Ellobiopsidae. There are some scientific papers out there but you would have to pay to have access to read them.

Ellobiopsidae are parasitic, so that means they attach to a host by means of a microscopic needle like appendage and feed on the nutrients from the host. So the host, a shrimp in this case, will be weakened in this case.

 

 

 

Edited by jayc

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Geoff

I've had the infected shrimp out of the tank for 3 days and so far I haven't seen any others with signs of infection. Hopefully this holds, but I'm checking them out closely every day.

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Geoff

It's been a week since I removed the infected shrimp and have not seen any signs of further infection. Do you think I'm in the clear now or could the parasites still be lurking?

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NoGi

Certainly sounding promising now.

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gab.houghton

3825c3f49798332eba5f1c22d73b6da8.jpg

here is the fuzzy underbelly of one of my reds

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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