Jump to content
sajica

Acceptable calcium level in CRS tank

Recommended Posts

sajica

I've googled and so far I've been unable to find and answer, to what levels of calcium are safe/ recommended in a shrimp tank. Just wondering if anyone might know

Is there an upper/ lower limit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fishmosy

As I understand it (from marine/seawater chemistry) most calcium in water is found as calcium carbonate. As carbonates are pH buffers, adding calcium (as calcium carbonate) will affect pH and alkalinity, so if you go overboard and add too much it could harm acid/neutral pH loving shrimp.

So yes, there are upper and lower limits but I don't think anyone knows specifically what they are. I think your best bet to ensure there are no problems is to ensure you do regular water changes and use a specific shrimp water conditioning powder to provide similar conditions as those found for wild shrimp as both of these will provide calcium and other mineral ions required for the growth of healthy shrimp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Triggs

KH would be one of the things to look out for. If you add too much Ca you will raise the KH

If your KH is within acceptable parameters all is fine really, if it's too low for your liking you can raise it with some Ca and Mg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sprae

Recommended for CRS, KH (Karbonathärte) levels are apparently 0-2, so I'm not sure there's much you can add and not affect that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BlueBolts

A while ago, I self researched, and was determine to conclude on the ideal Ca:Mg ratio for CRS's. Results were a 4:1 to 3:1 Ca:Mg ratio gave me the best results for moulting/colour/thickness etc...

Oliver from Aquotix fwd'd a formula, where test were required for GH & Ca, which then calculates the Mg, thus a ratio can be achieved..(see table below...this is Sajica's WP ...)...GH @ 18, Ca @ 60ppm....Therefore ratio is 60:42 = 1.4:1

[TABLE=width: 347]

GH Value in dGH

[/TD]

Ca in ppm

Mg in ppm

18

60

=

41.82439024

[/TABLE]

The reason I previously asked sajica's his Ca value was that I noticed his shrimps appeared washed out, and although they maybe culls, in my THEORY, it can be improved by ensuring a Ca:Mg ratio of 4:1/3:1.

If Sajica's GH value was lowered to 12, then the ratio would be 50:16 = 3:1

[TABLE=width: 347]

GH Value in dGH

Ca in ppm

Mg in ppm

12

60

=

15.68780488

[/TABLE]

The conclusion is that the Ca & GH level is very high, and if Sajica's tap water is at 12 GH, and the tank is buffering it to 18, then there's a buffering issue within the tank. Theoretically, if the IDEAL CRS GH is 4, then the Ca should be approx. 20ppm, giving the ratio of 3.8:1

[TABLE=width: 347]

GH Value in dGH

Ca in ppm

Mg in ppm

4

[TD]20

=

5.229268293

[/TABLE]

This is where RO water comes into play.......starting with a 0 reading, I use CaSO4 to increase my Calcium, and Epsom Salts to increase my Magnesium.

The formula is ..=((B3*17.86) - (D3*2.5)) /4.1

B3=GH Value in dGH

D3=Ca Value in PPM

The entire motivation for my self research was to get the best colour possible for my .....yes you guessed it, bluebolts!.....I achieved this colour through a 4:1 ratio .....

post-163-139909847053_thumb.jpg

This is ONLY in my absolute personal research, and tinkering, and maybe full of B!^$S!@&!. Whenever I see my shrimps showing less vibrance, I add some CaSO4, and within 24 hours, they're back to their colour/thickness again. Not a magic potion...low grade shrimps will remain low grade, but may improve colour ....

post-24-139909846756_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
durro68

Nice info the BB. Thanks for taking the time to explain it!

cheers

Greg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fishmosy

Thats great info. Do you only add epsom salts and CaSO4 to your RO or do you have your own formula for 'shrimp salts'?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BlueBolts

fishmosy - this were pre-salty shrimp days.... I use salty shrimp religiously now. Depending on stock levels, and moulting demands etc, I find that Ca get depleted in shrimps tanks more in comparison to Mg.... So really just a observation I make with my shrimps....i.e. if they start loosing their colour virbrance, I add CaS04. All tanks/environments differ, but this is what works for me...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sajica

WOW, thanks for that informative post Marcus :) Do you aim to constantly achieve 3:1/ 4:1 ratio at all times, regardless of GH readings?

Plenty to think about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BlueBolts

Sajica - Yes, that ratio is within my shrimp keepers bible. There's no doubt there many other ratio/theories etc.....but it's definitely worked for me, and more importantly helps explain why things go wrong...i.e. moulting issues, low % of surviving juvi's....etc, BUT obviously there's many other factors influencing moulting deaths etc...but having some workable theories just helps understand the dynamics of WP better, rather then always say WTF did my shrimp die.....I try to combat that with science/theories.....actually I just bombard oliver & Dean with questions and theories !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fishmosy

After seeing this thread I've tried to find some scientific papers on the subject. One review paper (on crustaceans, of which shrimp are a part of) in particular suggests that during molting, basically all calcium is depleted from the crustaceans body. So if there is not enough Ca available for uptake there will be problems with post-molting survival.

It also suggests calcium uptake in crustaceans occurs mainly via the gills, so having high levels of calcium in the diet may not necessarily be important.

This exactly fits with what you are saying BB. Did you try higher Ca to Mg ratios, and if so, what did you find?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BlueBolts

Mg requirements for shrimps is only minute/minimal, so ratio and Ca levels are more critical....whilst int he midst of teh experiment, and raising my Ca levels, my BB turned radioactive blue, and was found dead the following day ? Oops. So like fire, if you played with chemical, be prepared to get burned....LO...was a very sad and emotional experiment !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sajica

DANG!!! But that BB looked smoking hot :)

I'll have you know that atm my GH from tap water tends to flucuate. I've had it as low as 5, but typically it sits around 8 *from memory* GH atm is 9, Ca 60. Eventually I'll be running all tap water through my own DIY filter to soften it for the shrimps, before purchasing a RO Unit. They're pretty cheap on ebay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Must Read SKF Articles

  • Register today, ask questions and share your shrimp and fish tank experiences with us!

    Join Our Community!

  • Posts

    • sdlTBfanUK
      Thats interesting that you feel the same in USA with it being a much bigger country, I had thought that maybe it was a lot more difficult/risky transporting live shrimps because of that, and assumed it takes longer, or is ridiculously expensive? Thanks for that, most interesting. Simon
    • sdlTBfanUK
      When you say a ghost town I hope you don't mean the shrimp are dying off? When I set up my Betta tank I think I mentioned the soil was fighting with the water and I was getting PH of abut 6 for a few months and it has crept up more recently. The culls I dumped in there were fine at the low PH etc so I would be amazed if that caused too much of a problem! If you now don''t have any shrimps in there maybe I would put the rock back into the tank so that can speed up the exhausting of the buffering substrate and it would probably be safer to wait until the substrate isn't buffering before buying any more shrimps as a precaution for a while?  Oh I see JayC beat me to it........ hopefully what you mean then is the forum ghost town and not the tank? Simon
    • jayc
      Not the best photo of the fish. Have you checked your water parameters?
    • jayc
      Yeah, there was an issue with SKFA forums or the servers its on for many hours. That would have been why no one was around to respond.   That rock was buffering the pH. Now that it's gone, the water is returning to it's normal pH range. Well normal but for the substrate buffering it lower. You can try adding a small piece of the rock back in - that's one quick option.
    • Crabclaw
      Hey guys, I noticed a couple of days ago that one of my female rocket killies has some sort of disease or injury on her side, and I have no experience with fish diseases at all, so can I get some help with working out what it is and what to do about it? One of my female endlers also has a little white line on the end of her tail, and I just noticed this as well. Please help me with identifying the problems and fixing them. Photos are here: https://postimg.cc/gallery/odz029e0/ Cheers, Crabclaw
×