some cherry breeding Qs

[waffle]

hey folks! I've been figuring out what might be the most productive cherry breeding project for a beginning like me, and I've got a few Qs to see if I'm understanding this right. I really appreciate the info in this subforum so far, especially the family trees!

1. I have some yellows of varying quality. If I'm right, the possibilities are deeper yellows (neon and sakura), yellow rilli, and green, correct? Has anyone had success getting greens?

2. Crossing colour forms that originate from different wild-type strains will tend to throw wild-type culls a lot, correct? So if I were to breed my yellows with some reds, I'd get a ton of culls and it wouldn't be very productive?

3. I quite like chocs, bloody marys, and deep blue - so would getting some chocs be a good way to explore these varieties?

Thanks!!

Edited March 16, 2016 by waffle

[Disciple]

2 hours ago, waffle said:

hey folks! I've been figuring out what might be the most productive cherry breeding project for a beginning like me, and I've got a few Qs to see if I'm understanding this right. I really appreciate the info in this subforum so far, especially the family trees!

1. I have some yellows of varying quality. If I'm right, the possibilities are deeper yellows (neon and sakura), yellow rilli, and green, correct? Has anyone had success getting greens?

2. Crossing colour forms that originate from different wild-type strains will tend to throw wild-type culls a lot, correct? So if I were to breed my yellows with some reds, I'd get a ton of culls and it wouldn't be very productive?

3. I quite like chocs, bloody marys, and deep blue - so would getting some chocs be a good way to explore these varieties?

Thanks!!

Hello @waffle,

I am not 100% sure with my answers with these queries but hopefully it helps a little.

1. Yes you are correct. I believe there have been a few member with varying degrees of success with getting the green cherry. I think @Daydream had some at one stage but he does not seem to post on SKF anymore.

2. This is the one I am not 100% sure on but what you have said is what I have been told and taught from many breeders. I have never done it myself so I am not sure.

3. Yes I think so. In my own Choc colony I get the some blue dreams and bloody Mary's.

[ineke]

We had several people breeding greens from Yellow and even from Blue Velvets- from rilis -however it was generally found that the colour was not stable- the ph had a lot to do with the colour. A shrimp would be green in one ph and change colur as the ph was adjusted up or down so we didn't really establish a green line that bred true. I gave mine to someone else to go further with but the line was never established.

I was getting Blues and Bloody Mary from my Chocolate and Black Cherries but apart from some that are still breeding in my pond I no longer keep cherries. I must say even left to their own devices there are some very lovely blues out there and a couple of reds still.

[waffle]

Thanks @Disciple and @ineke!

So I need to get some chocs it seems!

Interesting about the Ph. I got some blues from my LFS and most of them intensified in colour in my tank but took on a green tinge. One changed to a blueish brown. So perhaps my water parameters have shifted their colour a bit.

[ineke]

My tanks started out at PH 7 for the cherries but I eventually changed over to benibachi soil for my other species and the cherries shared the lower ph tanks . The Blacks and Chocolates thrived in the lower ph but the yellows weren't happy.

[Disciple]

45 minutes ago, waffle said:

Thanks @Disciple and @ineke!

So I need to get some chocs it seems!

Interesting about the Ph. I got some blues from my LFS and most of them intensified in colour in my tank but took on a green tinge. One changed to a blueish brown. So perhaps my water parameters have shifted their colour a bit.

I have choc's if you are interested pm.

[ineke]

Just for reference here are some red base chocolates and blue based blacks. You can understand how you get red from chocolate and blue from black when you see the base colour like these old girls

[rawprawn]

Mate I'd stay the course with the yellows and leave the greens to the absolute pros to stabilize.

I've got a mixed bag of yellows myself, and will start a second tank soon that I'll stock with 10-20 of my very best, hence stepping my line up a notch.

I'll then sell down my first tank and clean/revitalize it for another "step up" in my line when this new tank has filled up a bit.

Yellows are a popular color, you can't go too far wrong with them, and if you want some variety throw some tigers in there with them as they can't cross breed.

That's my plan anyway.

[waffle]

@Disciple, pm sent!

@ineke, that photo does make it easy to see - they your old ones? The girls look super fat and healthy haha!

@rawprawn, nice advice there - was thinking along the same lines about the tigers! I'll stick with the yellows aiming for more vibrant colours and put all the rest in the cull tank. The guy I got them from said his yellow colony is four years old so I'm hoping they're decent starters. Only thing I'm worried about is one of the girls came with a paler, more opaque colour and her internal organs seem a weird dark brown - it just doesn't look right. I put her in isolation and she seems to be steadily improving. I just wish I'd noticed her in the set while they were being bagged up in case it's some kind of bacterial infection and the others start getting sick ? Rookie error I guess!!

Oh, one new Q! 

What ratio of males to females seems to work well?

[ineke]

They are poor old girls because they are no longer with us!

[waffle]

Awww!! At least their memory lives on!!

[waffle]

So, it turned out that the weird-looking shrimp that came with my batch of yellows was either never sick or made a full recovery. Maybe it was super stressed out and transfer to the quiet isolation tank with a single male for company cheered it up. Does it look like a wild type throwback? On the right below. (The male is a cull... he's super pale compared to the others.)

 

Edited March 20, 2016 by waffle

[ineke]

It could be a wild type it certainly isn't a normal yellow. You have 2 choices -cull it or keep it separate but try breeding it once with a yellow to see what you get. Some of the wild types do throw very nice and unusual colours but then you have to decide what to do with them as they can no longer be classed a particular colour because of they won't breed true for several generations. Easiest thing is cull it -I use a pond outside all year round for cull cherries. No heating no air -it's just a childs plastic clam shell with lots of moss and plants floating in it. It's under a pergola and the shrimp breed in there and seem under no stress.

[Mr. F]

1. I have some yellows of varying quality. If I'm right, the possibilities are deeper yellows (neon and sakura), yellow rilli, and green, correct? Has anyone had success getting greens?

Hello, new here but have been breeding neos a while. My greens came from an orange/neon yellow mixed colony. It was long and many wts came out of the process, but I ended up with some gorgeous shrimp.

Most of the stabilized lines I know of, like green jade and lime green, come from Orange. There are also the lesser known nessies. They are dark green, but originate from Orange.

Here are a couple from my slime green neo line:

For reference:

[waffle]

@Mr. F, those are really nice greens!! Thanks for sharing the pics!

Sounds like developing a stable green line is pretty far beyond my scope at the moment but I'll file it away for a more advanced project when I've skilled up in the shrimp keeping trade.

[Disciple]

Great Shrimp @Mr. F