Berried Female Mortality

[Unagi42]

Hey All,

I was excited to see a RCS female berried only 11 days after she'd hatched her last lot. Until I noticed she was totally dead.[emoji22]

The previous day I had done a water-chance/tank tidy and wonder if I had induced her to shed then lay a little too early. Her saddle wasn't nearly half as developed as last time she layed and I wonder if something in the process killed her.

My water parameters are pretty good and I know they are tiny creatures that just sometimes die but I mourn the eggs as well as the mature female that I lost.

Anyone else experienced something similar to this?

[jayc]

Yes, I've had similar experiences with a big black Choc cherry, which I called Big Momma.

She was huge, and constantly berried. Single handedly produced at least 5 new generations.

One day, I think it was just too much, and she passed on. Like in your photo, still with a clutch of eggs.

 

The fact that she could carry on producing at least 5 generations, that I know of, is due to the fact that I would feed them a high protein food to sustain their strength. I fed them Low Keys Power Protein B18 and bloodworms.

[Unagi42]

Thanks @jayc. Maybe I need to look at a different diet.

[larrymull]

I too have had this happen but with a BB, it is interesting there are a lot of eggs there and considering she was as you say only half saddled might have meant it was all a bit too much for her. Giving birth for any living thing is an ordeal and takes time to get over. 

All the best with the rest of your shrimp.

[jayc]

2 minutes ago, Unagi42 said:

Thanks @jayc. Maybe I need to look at a different diet.

I'll let you know if I get more Low Keys Power Protein B18 .

It's not sold in Aus. And thus the cost of getting it into the country can make it a bit more expensive than normal shrimp food.

[Unagi42]

I too have had this happen but with a BB, it is interesting there are a lot of eggs there and considering she was as you say only half saddled might have meant it was all a bit too much for her. Giving birth for any living thing is an ordeal and takes time to get over. 

All the best with the rest of your shrimp.

Totally agree. Once you've seen a human birth it tends make you realise the effort, risk and energy required.

2 minutes ago, Unagi42 said: Thanks @jayc. Maybe I need to look at a different diet.

I'll let you know if I get more Low Keys Power Protein B18 .

It's not sold in Aus. And thus the cost of getting it into the country can make it a bit more expensive than normal shrimp food.

Thanks I appreciate it.

I'm still a newbie to Shrimp and mine do a lot of foraging. They also get algae tablets and infrequent mulberry leaves.

[jayc]

10 minutes ago, Unagi42 said:

They also get algae tablets and infrequent mulberry leaves.

Yeah, that diet there is not going to be enough protein for them. Give them some bloodworms once a week. Especially in Spring - late Summer.

[Unagi42]

Thanks @jayc - exactly why I joined this place - expertise and experience.

[emoji2]

[jayc]

2 minutes ago, Unagi42 said:

Thanks @jayc - exactly why I jointed this place - expertise and experience.

LOL. No problem.

Don't stop what you are feeding now. Algae tabs and Mulberry leaves are a good source of other nutrients like calcium.

[Unagi42]

2 minutes ago, Unagi42 said: Thanks @jayc - exactly why I jointed this place - expertise and experience.

[emoji2]

LOL. No problem.

Don't stop what you are feeding now. Algae tabs and Mulberry leaves are a good source of other nutrients like calcium.

When I used to keep Yabbies I had to add turtle blocks (big white blocks) or their shells wouldn't harden enough after a moult.

Being a lot smaller do we ever need to add anything to help with she'll hardness? (Or is the calcium in above items enough?)

[jayc]

Those blocks are just calcium blocks. 

No you don't need to add that.

The shrimps will get sufficient calcium from their food. That is why you need to keep their diet varied.

They will also be able to absorb calcium from the water. This is where you need to maintain the Calcium:Magnesium ratio properly. We monitor this by testing TDS, and GH and Ca.

[DemonCat]

I've just had a berried female die too... A day after a water change. Looked like her shell was splitting on her back too. Was pretty sad :( I don't feed blood worms so will do that occasionally. The White  Clouds I have in the tank will go crazy for it though. About once a week I do shrimp pellets, some spinach it an algae tab. Where does one get mulberry leaves from?

Edited November 23, 2015 by DemonCat

[Unagi42]

I've just had a berried female die too... A day after a water change. Looked like her shell was splitting on her back too. Was pretty sad :( I don't feed blood worms so will do that occasionally. The White  Clouds I have in the tank will go crazy for it to though. About once a week I do shrimp pellets, some spinach it an algae tab. Where does one get mulberry leaves from?

I just pick them from a local tree, dry them for a week then chuck them in with a weight. 3 day feast!

@ineke put me onto them.

PM me and I'll send you some.

[ura]

Any stress such as water change, handling, etc. can induce the ecdysis (the moulting process, triggered by stress hormones). Such untimely moulting causes death in most cases, especially in berried or near-berried females. If your animals are well settled in the tank, dont make any sudden changes if possible.

[DemonCat]

Good to know. From what I have read, a female will be berried for 3-4 weeks. Do you suggest to not do any water changes over that time? 

Or maybe be more careful regarding the time taken to do a water change? 

I have kind of lost a bit of interest as it was my biggest, most colourful shrimp which has died. She was by far the queen of the tank and even bossed the White Clouds around.

[Unagi42]

Any stress such as water change, handling, etc. can induce the ecdysis (the moulting process, triggered by stress hormones). Such untimely moulting causes death in most cases, especially in berried or near-berried females. If your animals are well settled in the tank, dont make any sudden changes if possible.

Quite possibly what caused her death but her saddle was underdeveloped and I judged her a few weeks off laying (in my vast 3 months of experience).[emoji51]

But it's good to keep in mind and I'll just do filter changes (nano tank) during that crucial period.

Good to know. From what I have read, a female will be berried for 3-4 weeks. Do you suggest to not do any water changes over that time? 

Or maybe be more careful regarding the time taken to do a water change? 

I have kind of lost a bit of interest as it was my biggest, most colourful shrimp which has died. She was by far the queen of the tank and even bossed the White Clouds around.

Yeah around 3 weeks with Cherries for me (both females took 17 days).

I'm sure another of your smaller shrimp will now saddle up (so to speak)and have a crack..... Or you could always add more shrimp.[emoji12]

Sorry again you lost her.

[jayc]

48 minutes ago, DemonCat said:

Do you suggest to not do any water changes over that time?

Avoiding regular water changes is not the answer.

you just need to take care that the new water matches the correct parameters for the shrimp you are keeping, and that you add the new water slowly.

<edit> - you can probably stretch water changes by checking TDS. If TDS is rising from it's ideal, then it's time to change water.

Is there any chance of separating the fish from the shrimps? It looks like the fish are getting to all the food before the shrimp.

Edited November 24, 2015 by jayc

[DemonCat]

I used to just chuck all the water in, but I now add the new water more slowly, however as I have an internal filter, some of it is out of the water for a period of time which I do not like. I will just be much more vigilant with water changes and making sure the parametres of the new water match as much as possible. Its been a long running issue that a shrimp dies a day or so after a water change, so at least I know what the issue is, and its my problem to fix. I would rather that than not know the issue!

I fed some blood worms last night which the shrimp snaffled up as the white clouds were not that interested. The fish smash down the shrimp sinking pellets, but the shrimp also get the algae wafers from time to time which the fish leave alone. When I chuck in spinach the shrimp also get that more than the fish, so overall I reckon they are fine. 

Regarding separating the fish and shrimp, thats not really an option and I like to have them in together.

Edited November 24, 2015 by DemonCat

[jayc]

18 minutes ago, DemonCat said:

Regarding separating the fish and shrimp, thats not really an option and I like to have them in together.

That's fine. I was just checking.

It just means you have to be more vigilant with what the shrimp get to eat, before the fish snaps it up.

Sounds like you are slowly getting the situation under control anyway.

 

Edited November 24, 2015 by jayc

[DemonCat]

I'd like to think so. I have lost five shrimp over a five month period, and all have died the day after a water change. 

Just more impactful as it was my biggest and brightest shrimp this time around who happened to be berried at the same time. 

Thanks for all the info!

[Matuva]

I have also experienced deaths after water changes. As jayc says, you must add new water slowly.

From my side, I now perform 15% water changes only every 3-4 weeks, as long as water paramaters (TDS, No2-No3) are safe.

[DemonCat]

How big is your tank? 

I have a 3ft tank (approx 100-120 litres of water) and do 20-25l water changes weekly. 

Too much you think?

 

I did only recently move house and as I expected a spike in conditions I did frequent changes, but maybe I can pull it back as I do not have many algae issues...

Edited November 25, 2015 by DemonCat

[jayc]

6 minutes ago, DemonCat said:

0-25l water changes weekly

20% is on the high side.

Cut it back to 10% (or 10L-12L) weekly.

Monitor TDS closely.

And if TDS is still rising with 10% water change then do it twice a week.

[larrymull]

speaking of water changes and adding RO water with salty shrimp back in to the tank for a water change, is there a guideline for how much salty shrimp you should add in to meet current tank TDS? 

I was thinking if someone tried to match the TDS of say 150 in the tank and had the same TDS of 150 in the water change, this would obviously lead to a much higher TDS when the water change has been added and severely stress the shrimp?

Thoughts?

[Matuva]

I have about the same size of tank. Did you put new water or did you refill with the old water after your move?

Have you any informations about your TDS, No2 and No3 levels? If they are in range, I think you can change less and less frequently.