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revolutionhope

benibachi fulvic grains

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revolutionhope

hey all,

i've impulsively decided to setup my first crystal shrimp tank - (i have an existing nano tank with CBS but i got that second-hand.

in any case - long story short -i have a fully cycled barebottom tank with a canister and an air-sponge running. i have a little purigen in the canister

i only have a week and a half to organise tank buffering and i have just ordered 2 packs of fulvic grains which should arrive mid-late next week. is there anything else i can do to ensure i have the right water parameters to keep the bee shrimp successfully? will the fulvic grains alone do a good enough job for me provided i replace them routinely every 6 months?

love n peace

will

Edited by revolutionhope
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jayc

Just curious why you decided on that route?

ie. Bare bottom tank, using Fulvic grains to manipulate the water parameters.

Instead of adding Substrate like ADA.

 

Pound for pound, Fulvic grains is way more expensive than substrate. 

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revolutionhope

i guess thats my question - can i just bung in a substrate now and it will be good to go by tuesday week?

just realised i said barebottom but actually i did have some black quartz in the tank already with plenty of biofilm ..

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jayc

i guess thats my question - can i just bung in a substrate now and it will be good to go by tuesday week?

just realised i said barebottom but actually i did have some black quartz in the tank already with plenty of biofilm ..

Unfortunately, I don't think adding a whole bag of substrate now is going to be cycled by next Tuesday.

There isn't much time at all if you need the tank to hold new shrimp. I suppose Fulvic grains is your quickest option. However, I have no idea how quickly Fulvic grains take to change the water parameters. I have never tested that. Is it instantaneous? Of does fulvic grains take a while to release it's "stuff" ? No idea. You might have to do the water testing to find out.

Do you know what your current water parameters are?

 

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revolutionhope

hey jayc thanks a tonne for assisting me to figure this out - i know the tank is cycled with 0 ammo and ntirites.

just tested pH it is at 6.4-6.6 according to api kit which is fantastic.

however since sitting there cycling away for the past 2-3 months the TDS has crept from 5-10ppm when i first started it up to 32ppm so i was thinking of dumping as much of this water as i can and adding fresh remineralised RO.

which brings me to another question - i have a tiny pack of saltyshrimp bee gh+ i got when i bought an established nano from  someone but it has had moisture in it and is a bit congealed/chunkified - ive used it for WC on the nano with seemingly no ill effects but there is only a handful of tough old CBS in there so i would love confirmation that there is no issue with using it on my new tank. i also have the jayc diy remin mix so i could use that instead if recommended.

 

thanks again for your help :-)

love n peace

will

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Disciple

I agree with @jayc You definitely will not cycle the tank by Tuesday if you dump in new ADA substrate.

Your tank is Bare bottom but the TDS is creeping up I wonder what is causing this? Should be interesting to find out.

How did your Zebras for Rev?

Edited by Disciple

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revolutionhope

hey D good to see you.

i think the tds should in part be explained by nitrates and partly by the food i added to kickstart the cycle but (i think it was you who suggested this with my zebra-to-be tank!! - mainly by the gunk in the old establisehd filter media that came across to the new canister.

re zebs i delayed them a month and when i was raedy for them unfortunately bobs colony had been wiped out i understand by a large rain event :-(

anyway i think he has some available again now orat least will do soon but basically i chickened out of keeping zebs for the timebeing and opted to go for caridina short creek and darwin red nose instead.

this also means i get to try my hand at crystal shrimp which should be a good introduction to running a softwater tank.

re substrate i had consiered fluval stratum as i believe it stops leeching very quickly- but i gather that it doesnt buffer effectively after 6 months or so. so i've decide to go with the fulvic grains a) because of the short time span available to me and b) because i am lazy and think it will be easier to just change over the fulvic grains from the canister once every 6 months compared to dealing with changing substrate which i imagine must be a major pain in the bum am i right?

love n peace

will

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jayc

which brings me to another question - i have a tiny pack of saltyshrimp bee gh+ i got when i bought an established nano from  someone but it has had moisture in it and is a bit congealed/chunkified - ive used it for WC on the nano with seemingly no ill effects but there is only a handful of tough old CBS in there so i would love confirmation that there is no issue with using it on my new tank.

LOL chunkified.

No idea mate, ok well maybe some idea. The minerals are still in there, since it hasn't left the container. BUT, since it's all clumped together, your measurements might be off. So to be on the safe side, use a tiny bit less. 

 

i think the tds should in part be explained by nitrates and partly by the food i added to kickstart the cycle but (i think it was you who suggested this with my zebra-to-be tank!! - mainly by the gunk in the old establisehd filter media that came across to the new canister.

Yeah, TDS will creep up slightly from food breaking down into it's base elements like sulphur, magnesium, calcium, etc and thus releasing  Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates. Even things like dead plants/leaves will release small amounts of dissolved solids. All this will be picked up by a TDS meter. 

That's why it's important to maintain water changes.

Edited by jayc

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revolutionhope

cool thankyou once again mr jayc !

i will be changing out all this old water today (its been in there a couple months) and seeing what the pH is at 24-48 hours later.

at that time - if necessary then do you think would it then be appropriate to use a pH down product to to drop the pH to 6.4ish before (and/or after?) adding the salty shrimp?

one cool little fact about this tank - i bizaarely somehow found one of the choc cherries i got from nogi had migrated to this tank. it is completely beyond me how it got there, i suppose it may have been clinging onto an air-sponge filter when i moved it across and didn't notice.

in any case it was surviving fine and well last i checked just hanging around in RO water devoid of any essential minerals - i was impressed!

love n peace

will

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jc12

Ask me! Ask me! Haha. I have heaps of experience with chunkified SS GH+!!! LOL

Mine has been a solid chunk/block at about 40% full. Initially I used a hard metal spoon to scrap bits of it off (also aquascaping scissors, tweezers, anything I could find that is hard enough really). Towards the last 10-20%, I decided it was too hard so I poured in some rainwater (this is what I usually use... you could use RO I guess) and dissolve whatever remains in there and have since been using the 'liquidfied' form to no ill effects. I have done this for over 4 months now. I have TBs in the tank.

As for substrate, my only experience is Cal Aqua BEP. Shrimps/fish were added in a week running off a matured canister filter. Np issue. Sorry I do not experience with ADA, Fluval or Benibachi so can't comment.

Good luck!

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revolutionhope
hey jc thanks verymuch for your input! :-)
 
they are all moderately sized chunks of saltyshrimp i can obtain in there so i should be all ok then :-)
 
can you tell me how long the cal aqua black earth pro buffers effectively for btw?
love n peace
 

will

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jc12

Sorry I am not sure how long it will buffer. Mine has been in the tank for 10 months from December 2014. It is still buffering at around ph 6.2~6.4. I use a 9L normal bag for a 60x35cm tank. It sits at about 4-5cm thick.

A month ago, I trimmed out 30+ pygmy chain swords from the foreground and even with a bit of tugging and pulling, the BEP did not show any sign of becoming mushy or breaking down. Water stayed clear throughout all the digging around.

Hope this helps. :)

 

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jayc
can you tell me how long the cal aqua black earth pro buffers effectively for btw?
love n peace

Will,

the BEP product has only been in the Australian market for maybe 2 years, unlike ADA.

I got into BEP about Aug 2014 last year. My first BEP tank that is using BEP is still buffering well since Aug 2014.

ADA have been know to buffer well into 4-5 years.

Both good products. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

But BEP has less weaknesses in my opinion.

Hopefully that's a good indication.

Ask me! Ask me! Haha. I have heaps of experience with chunkified SS GH+!!! LOL

LOL !! :bouaaaaah:

JC12 the expert in chunkified SS.

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al4n

When i added a thick layer of BEP into a already cycled tank, there was no signs of ammonia.

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revolutionhope

Calling all bee-shrimp gurus :-)

well my pH was at 6.4 in the tank with the below parameters

here is the setup -very well cycled and established 250litre tank, TDS below 10ppm.

- black quartz sand (pisces or some other guaranteed inert brand),

- RO water + sera blackwater additive, a couple IAL leaves, one or two alder cones.

- crimson bee balls

- filtration is air-sponge and also a canister with a mixture of mechanical filtration, matrix and eheim medias, plus purigen.

However since then (a bit less than 2 weeks ago i did the following to change my setup)

- boosted TDS to 100ppm using SS bee/gh+

- added 3 packets of fulvic grain to canister and may have added a touch more purigen.

- added moss, more leaves and some more bee-balls.

- added 20 CRS and fed them fairly lightly.

- angled spraybar against the wall to reduce flow which has reduced surface agitation slightly (= more carbonic acid if anything?)

pH is now sitting at ~ 6.8 grrrrr.... if i had had the time i would definitely have been better off using substrate!

benibachi fulvic grains 30g pack (at $20 a pop) is supposed to lower pH to 6.4 for 60litres water and last up to 6 months...

i just dug up a thread where bluebolts reviewed his situation and found that it had a much more mild effect, he suggested that in his situation 30grams drops pH of a 30litre tank by 0.5 (from 7.1 - 7.3 down to 6.8, and this lasted at least 4 months for him)

I have one more pack of fulvic grains on the way but i do not care to keep throwing money at this product, as i said if i had more time i would have taken jayc and other's advice and used substrate to buffer instead

What are my options? I think I need to add substrate to the tank. What is the best one to use in my situation ? Is it possible to leach out the ammonia into another container before adding it to the tank? How do I go about it. help! I'm concerned the pH may continue to rise to 7 and above and i want to avoid this situation occurring if possible.

I note one person above said they added BEP to a cycled tank without any ammonia issues so perhaps that is the way to go? I can scab media from other filters if it will help? - and would the purigen help to pickup any excess that the biofilter can't handle?

Thanks in advance I will be very very grateful for any advice and opinions before i go ahead and try something ...

love n peace

will

Edited by revolutionhope

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jayc

Cal Labs BEP is certainly the way to go out of the other choices of substrate.

It WILL leach some ammonia. So add it slowly or leach it out in another container as you said.

Additional purigen won't hurt in this situation.

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revolutionhope

ouch hmm cal labs BEP is $60ish for 9 litres and I'd need at least 3 packs according to their guide.....

not only that but its out of stock st bossaquaria and techden... might have to just try some more fulvic grains for now. unless there's another way... can anyone advise re peat perhaps?

actually the fine version is in stock for 70$ each at techden but i really can't fork out 200$ on this right now... even if i use paypal oay after delivery method.. my wife will be very upset when she realises. would one pack do the job for now? i guess i could grab another pack ein a few weeks and then another? what do u think jayc?

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jayc

Yeah, one pack for now is going to be sufficient. You need to add it slowly anyway to minimise ammonia.

How big is your tank?

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revolutionhope

tank is 250 litres 3-4 packs is advised in the product description..

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jayc

3 packs sounds about right.

Just add it one bag at a time. 

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revolutionhope

hey mate thanks again for your help i REALLY appreciate it

i've currently got a layer of sand - how do you think i should approach this? also it seems i might only be able to get the "fine" variety and not the normal ... what do u make of that?

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jayc
3 minutes ago, revolutionhope said:

how do you think i should approach this?

I don't really think there is a right way or a wrong way.

I think it's down to what you are willing to do.

The compulsive nature in me would remove everything including the sand. Then add BEP slowly to a bare bottom tank with the shrimp in it.

Alternatively, you could add one cup a day to the tank without removing the sand.

 

It's a pity you can't get the 'normal' variety of BEP. I like the grain size better in normal.

 

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Disciple

I am glad you decided to get some soil at the end of the day I believe you will be better off.

I have not used BEP before but I would recommend you give it a good rinse until the water is not cloudy before you add it to your tank.

I would also catch all the shrimp in the tank and put them in a bucket with a airstone before adding the soil. Once the soil is in I would wait for the water to clear up then test all the Water Parameters. If it is ok then I would slowly acclimatize the shrimp back into the tank.

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revolutionhope

hey thanks D that sounds like very sensible advice

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jayc
8 minutes ago, Disciple said:

I have not used BEP before but I would recommend you give it a good rinse until the water is not cloudy before you add it to your tank

 

That's the good thing about BEP. It's the cleanest substrate I have used. Compared to ADA and Benibachi, there is next to no "dirty" particles. It doesn't have those twigs, and stuff that ADA and Benibachi have when you flood it. BEP is also not cloudy if added to the tank with out rinsing. Unlike the other two brands which seem to create a dust storm in the tank.

 

@revolutionhope you can post your experiences with BEP on SKF.

We will make Disciple a convert to BEP one day.

Edited by jayc

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