GH & Molt issues / deaths

[keego]

GH & Molt issues

 

For the past few weeks , I’ve been experience a number of death in my system.  My system consists of 1 x 3ft tank, divided into 3 sections all with individual bulkheads water return & 5 x 2ft tanks all plumbed to a 3ft sump.

 

WP test results

 

DATE	TDS	PH	Amm….	NITRITE	NITRATE	KH	GH	Ca
15/8/15	185	6.4	0	0	10	0-1	8	45
7/9/15	180	604	0	0	5	0-1	8	40

 

 

Around the 27^th to 31^st August 2015, I add another 5 x 2ft tanks, plumbed into the system. These tanks were cycled over 4 weeks. All tanks in the system were setup with Benibachi soil, mineral powder & beemax.

 

DATE	TDS	PH	Amm….	NITRITE	NITRATE	KH	GH	Ca
31/7/15	170	5.4	0	0	5-20	N/A	N/A	N/A

 

 

I add 1 tank at a time to the system over 48 hours, then another and so on for the next 10 days.

 

DATE	TDS	PH	Amm…	NITRITE	NITRATE	KH	GH	Ca
9/9/15 9AM	185	6.4	0	0	5	8	1	50
9/9/15 1PM	170	6.2	N/A	N/A	N/A	7	1	35 ??
21/9/15	167	6.2	N/A	N/A	5	7	0-1	45
23/9/15	165	5.8	0	0	5	8	0-1	45

 

 

With the drop in PH record today, I decided to tested each section of the system

 

SECTION	TDS	PH	Amm	NITRITE	NITRATE	KH	GH	Ca
SUMP	164	5.8	N/A	N/A	N/A	0-1	8	45
3FT TANK	167	5.8	N/A	N/A	N/A	0-1	7	40
TOP RACK	167	5.8	N/A	N/A	N/A	0-1	7	40
BOTTOM RACK	165	5.8	N/A	N/A	N/A	0-1	8	45

 

 

From the results, both the sump & recently add bottom rack have a higher GH & Ca and have lowered the overall systems PH. I took 2-3 different test for GH , Ca to ensure accurate results.

 

Temperature ranged from 22.8-23.6 degrees

 

I used Salifert for Ca test & API for GH & KH. Ph is with an ATC pH pen which I calibrated before testing today.

 

Yesterday, I found 2 dead shrimp & observed the reminds of a failed molt, that had part the new exoskeletons from a CRS attached. Today I found 2 dead shrimp.

 

Over the past 2 weeks I noticed a few berried girls, its been over 2 months since I’ve had any berried girls.

 

So do I continual to lower the GH with a goal of 6 & TDS 140-150 or just allow the system to reach its own equilibrium??  

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                               

 

Edited September 23, 2015 by keego

[salvanost]

what shrimp?

i think caridina need gh < 6

[Disciple]

Hello ‌@keego.

It is sad to hear about your shrimp. If you did not mention anything about failed moults, I would have said the deaths may be because of the swings in PH.

From your charts it looks like your PH is constantly changing. From 5.4ph to 6.4ph. Even the second last table that was over a 2 week period has ph from 5.8 to 6.4. I read in a post (I think Jayc wrote it) where the poster had a theory that PH shock is as bad as TDS shock.

I am just wondering if the new soil you just put in is buffering at a different level to your older soil and this is causing the PH to constantly swing? But I don't think this would explain your failed moults.

Also as Salvanost mentioned gh at 8 seems high but I am guessing that 8gh is what you had it at previously and they were fine before. So I feel like it most be something to do with adding the new tanks.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Disciple
grammar errors

[keego]

Hi Disciple & Salvanost , yes both the Gh & TDS snuck over time. All breeding stopped during winter then the deaths started around the start of September, before hookng up the new tanks.

I agreed the Gh is to high & yes the PH swinging are not helping.  What I find strange is out of the 13 tanks, I've had no deaths in my BB tanks, of Tang Tiger tanks , some of the girls in all tanks are berried. So 1 day there's a failed molt, the the next day in the same tank, you can have a berried girl. 

The new soil PH  was in the low 5's

Unfortunately, I'm just going to have to ride it out for the next few weeks & monitor & continual to lower the GH down to 6. Lucky I got a few berried girls, so its not all that bad,

Have both TB, cherries , & 1 tiger tanks

 

Thanks for your input

[ineke]

Just out of interest check the ph in the water you add to your tanks when you do water changes. Most of My tanks sit at around Ph 5.5 but the water I put in usually has a higher ph - I use RO water which is about Ph6.8. It goes a bit lower with the salty shrimp I add but is still always higher than what is in my tanks so I make sure I add new water very slowly . It probably is easier with a sump as that dilutes what you add anyway but my tanks are all stand alone tanks. If you have  ph of 5 and are adding water with a ph of 6 or higher the resultant difference can affect the shrimp in a new system. Also new tank syndrome at about week 12 can cause problems . Once the tanks are mature and all other WP's are stable the shrimp seem to cope ok with slight variations but in new systems they seem a bit more sensitive. It may not be your problem but worth checking anyway.

[keego]

Thanks Ineke, I never checked the ph, gh, or kh of my RO water  op's I only check TDS.  The main system has been up & running about 8 months and the new tanks about 4 weeks. 

But next time , I will change the soil in all tanks at one time

[keego]

1^st October 2015

 

	Temp	TDS	PH	Amm	NO2	NO3	KH	GH	Ca
SUMP	23.3	164	5.9	0	0	5-10	0-1	7	50
3FT TANK	23.3	167	5.9	0	0	5-10	0-1	7	50
TOP RACK	23.7	166	5.9	0	0	5-10	0-1	8	50
BOTTOM RACK	23.3	167	5.9	0	0	5-10	0-1	7	50

 

Quick up date, still more deaths & at the same time more berried girls, in 1 case the same tank within 24rs. I was able to get to them in between 5- 20 minutes. They were hard /ridge to the touch, no signs of molt in the tank.

Hoping the system is becoming balanced, lost way too many to talk about

 

[Disciple]

I was just doing the GH - Ca:MG ratio calculation

MG = ((7*17.86) - (50*2.5))/4.1 = 0.0048

So Ca:MG ratio in your tank is 20:0.0048 = 4166.667 (this is crazy) can someone check my calculations?? @jayc

MG = ((8*17.86) - (50*2.5))/4.1 = 4.36

So Ca:MG ratio in your tank is 20:4.36 = 4.59 

this is from this post by @BlueBolts http://shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/topic/4228-gh-camg-ratio/

Your ratio is way off the recommended 3 or 4 to 1 ratio (if the gh is 7 if it is 8 its not too bad) because to me it seems your calcium level is too high. The other possibility is that your test kits are defective.

I also think the addition of new tanks and soils have a part to play with the deaths.

[keego]

I was just doing the GH - Ca:MG ratio calculation

MG = ((7*17.86) - (50*2.5))/4.1 = 0.0048

So Ca:MG ratio in your tank is 20:0.0048 = 4166.667 (this is crazy) can someone check my calculations?? @jayc

MG = ((8*17.86) - (50*2.5))/4.1 = 4.36

So Ca:MG ratio in your tank is 20:4.36 = 4.59 

this is from this post by @BlueBolts http://shrimpkeepersforum.com/forum/topic/4228-gh-camg-ratio/

Your ratio is way off the recommended 3 or 4 to 1 ratio (if the gh is 7 if it is 8 its not too bad) because to me it seems your calcium level is too high. The other possibility is that your test kits are defective.

I also think the addition of new tanks and soils have a part to play with the deaths.

Will have to retest tomorrow,I did the 1ml, instead of 2ml test, I always get doggy reads do doing it a half rate.  I normally aim for 5ppm Ca to 1 drop GH as a rule of thumb with gives a rough ratio 3:8. 

Yeap, new tanks are differently having a big impact on the system. Apart for the doggy Ca readings, the other WP are becoming more aligned final. 

[jayc]

@Disciple your math is correct.

It is likely that the GH reading of 7 is inaccurate. API GH test kits can be touch and go sometimes. 

 

 

@keego, what are you adding to the tank to get Calcium that high? 50 on the salifert test would indicate some form of Ca additive is being added. Does this additive also have Mg in it?

[keego]

Hi @Jayc  your right about the API being touch & go. Got to watch out for 1/2 drops throwing the results out. I did all Gh test 3 times.

Only adding SS G+ into RO water,  

Will retest by tomorrow

Cheers

 

[keego]

 

@jayc 

@Disciple

I’ve retested both GH & Ca twice (1^st test & 2^nd test) and also included Ca milliliters solution reading.

	GH	GH	Ca mL	Ca	Ca ml	CA
3FT TANK	7	7	91	45	93	35
SUMP	7	7	92	40	93	35
TOP RACK	7	7	93	35	93	35
BOTTOM RACK	7	7	93	35	93	35
	1st test	2nd test	1st test	1st test	2nd test	2nd test

 

First point I’ve leant is the need to be precise, there’s a huge differences between yesterday & even todays reading, highlighted in yellow. The Salifert Ca test kit allows you to perform the test at either 1mL (1/2 rate)  or 2mL (full rate). I find whenever test at the 1mL rate, there is different than the 2 mL results when adding the solution, I normally create a large droplet & add that test tube solution, which is why I recorded different readings. This time I watched the measurement on the syringe and increased 1 increment at time.

So now I can confirm my system has a GH of 7 and a Ca of 35 which equates to 5 parts Ca for 1 part GH, which gives me a ratio of 3:8:1 according to the GH-Ca-Mg- Conversation spreadsheet & I think??? 

I’m still trying to lower my TDS to 150 down from 180-190 and lower my GH from 8 to 6.

Cheers

   

[jayc]

which gives me a ratio of 3:8:1 according to the GH-Ca-Mg- Conversation spreadsheet & I think??? 

I’m still trying to lower my TDS to 150 down from 180-190 and lower my GH from 8 to 6.   

 

That looks better.

3.8:1 Ca:Mg ratio is fine.

 

If you are using Salty Shrimp GH+ at water changes, then you might have to look at reducing the amount to get lower TDS and GH.

[keego]

Thanks Jayc, I will be slowly reduced both TDS & GH. On a side note, I've have NO deaths in my 1 tangerine tiger tanks which is part of the sump systems . Must be very hardy little shrimp. 

[revolutionhope]

how are the shrimps doing? noticed any improvement yet?

[keego]

how are the shrimps doing? noticed any improvement yet?

Hi Revolutionhope,  I glad to say the system has been in balanced for a few weeks now. Most tanks have berried girls. Tested yesterday & all tanks are at an equilibrium of TDS 168, Ph 5.8, Kh 0-4, Gh7, Ca35.

 

Will post some photos in my old tank journal tonigth

[Disciple]

Glad to hear it is settling down Keego.